Sam Darnold

[Shocker]

30 minutes ago, frankw said:

Any of them could bust but you really want another small frame QB? We have Corral. For Fitterer to add another he would have to be on the sauce or just not at all concerned for his job security.

I think Young is great.  If we get him I am more than willing to risk the size concerns.  I think he can start very early and be a player.  These guys are not all the same.  Young and Stroud are different than those other guys.  

Edited February 10, 2023 by Shocker

[PNW_PantherMan]

49 minutes ago, frankw said:

Personally I say give me a QB who will ruffle some feathers and shake things up and instill a new culture here the way Newton did. These dad jeans types who love Darnold can join him on his new team.

I mean I'd love that, but I think that's outside the scope of a scuffed bridge/backup QB.  I just think Sam aint it, so why bother bringing him back.  Shuffle the deck and bring in a fresh face even for the backup job.

[MHS831]

It makes a huge difference.  I had a coach in college who played TE in the NFL.  I was much better after 1 year with him.  I went from poor to average--in 1-yr.

[CPantherKing]

1 hour ago, Shocker said:

This is the type of news that worries me.  We talk about the teams in front us taking QBs without considering all the teams behind us that might move up.

Let them. These QBs are not worth 1st round picks.

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, MasterAwesome said:

I'll gladly accept that as one account of it.  But it doesn't explain ESPN's pass blocking win rate.  Also I will be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of PFF's grading system, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing that PFF awards the o-line with a boosted run blocking grade because of a QB scrambling.  They're usually pretty nuanced about these things.  That's why a CB could, for example, allow 0 catches for 0 yards and still be graded at a 50 because they get burned every other play and the QB just misses the throws or doesn't look his way.  I've never known PFF to be that superficial to simply look at rushing stats and automatically credit the o-line's run blocking.  They're very meticulous about their analysis and grading.

Yeah it seems like a pretty big flaw in their system if true. Those high rushing stats probably play some sort part in it though. I know their OL was considered bad before the season and was constantly shuffled/injured, throw it in with Fields sacks piling up (yeah he also holds the ball too long), I just have a hard time believing they aren’t bottom of the league. Looking at the top scramblers Jackson and Hurts also appear to have a top rated PFF OL. It’s definitely interesting…

Here is another article in mid December talking about how confusing it is.

https://www.bleachernation.com/bears/2022/12/16/wut-the-chicago-bears-apparently-have-a-top-10-offensive-line/
 

Mustipher and Lucas Patrick have pass-blocking grades that rank among the worst five at their respective positions. Meanwhile, Jones has a sub-70 pass-blocking grade as a left tackle. That’s sub-optimal when you consider that you’d want more from Justin Fields’ blindside

I guess it only takes 1 or 2 to completely ruin a play. 2 of the starters at the time were bottom 5 with their LT not being too great either (all pass blocking).

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, CPantherKing said:

Let them. These QBs are not worth 1st round picks.

Yeah there is no Aqeel Glass this year…

[CRA]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

You are wrong on several counts. Darnold does what his OC calls.  He does have some options based on defensive looks but it is limited.

Second why would you pass when you are running the ball down their throats? Was that because Sam couldn't pass or Wilkes wanted to run the ball feeling the o line does a better job run blocking versus pass blocking. Look at the games we couldn't run like Pittsburgh.   He was 14 for 23 for 225 and 9.8 yards per attempt and a passer rating of 108.  How about the buccaneers where we ran for around 100 yards. Yeah he was 23 for 37 for 341 yards and 9.2 yards per attempt. 

Yes his completion rate was 58.6% but the biggest stat is that he threw for over 8 yards a reception. 40% of his passes were for 1st downs and he threw 17 passes over 20 yards which would translate to almost 50 in a whole season.  He played much better than he has at any time in his career with a qb rating almost 20 points higher than his career average. 

He may have been bad for the Jets and in 2021 but he was significantly better in 2022 with a real OC who obviously was let go so we can expect better in the future under Reich. No Reich may prefer someone else but Darnold played his best ball by far in 2022 with competent players and coaches for the first time. Again I am not clamoring for him but fair is fair and your evaluation reflects your own bias not reality.

His best ball by far (4 credited wins in 2022 vs bad opponents)….is still below average QB play statistically.   That’s what you hang your hat on. 

Sam Darnold factually has been a bad QB.  You offer no actual counter argument rooted in anything.    He is not a good QB.  Both in NY and Carolina, overall he has had a poor career.  And played poorly by NFL standards.  Facts and stats back that.  And he had been given more opportunity at this point than anyone else gets.  Including other highly drafted guys. 

in fact, he factually has been statistically worse in Carolina than in NY.  Worse completion %, worse record, worse TD/INT ratio, QB rating, passing yards per game.  And on and on.  Those are the facts.   

 

[heel31ok]

24 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah there is no Aqeel Glass this year…

Just Glass Joe and his 4 sisters.

[panthers55]

42 minutes ago, CRA said:

His best ball by far (4 credited wins in 2022 vs bad opponents)….is still below average QB play statistically.   That’s what you hang your hat on. 

Sam Darnold factually has been a bad QB.  You offer no actual counter argument rooted in anything.    He is not a good QB.  Both in NY and Carolina, overall he has had a poor career.  And played poorly by NFL standards.  Facts and stats back that.  And he had been given more opportunity at this point than anyone else gets.  Including other highly drafted guys. 

in fact, he factually has been statistically worse in Carolina than in NY.  Worse completion %, worse record, worse TD/INT ratio, QB rating, passing yards per game.  And on and on.  Those are the facts.   

 

And you are mixing apples and oranges. In 2021 he had a different  O line, different coach and different OC than in 2022  with very different results. The big improvement in his play with a decent line and a real NFL coordinator is the only reason I think he could fit into our future plans. No one wants the Darnold of 2021 and you have to get over the bad memories to deal with the present. And it isn't just me. Most folks who saw him play in 2022 talked about his improved mechanics, improved decision making. His accuracy was spot on for the most part. Seems there are more haters here than most anywhere else. He will be a backup somewhere next year. Don't know where though.

[Panthera onca]

9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And you are mixing apples and oranges. In 2021 he had a different  O line, different coach and different OC than in 2022  with very different results. The big improvement in his play with a decent line and a real NFL coordinator is the only reason I think he could fit into our future plans. No one wants the Darnold of 2021 and you have to get over the bad memories to deal with the present. And it isn't just me. Most folks who saw him play in 2022 talked about his improved mechanics, improved decision making. His accuracy was spot on for the most part. Seems there are more haters here than most anywhere else. He will be a backup somewhere next year. Don't know where though.

Anywhere but here is fine.

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

And you are mixing apples and oranges. In 2021 he had a different  O line, different coach and different OC than in 2022  with very different results. The big improvement in his play with a decent line and a real NFL coordinator is the only reason I think he could fit into our future plans. No one wants the Darnold of 2021 and you have to get over the bad memories to deal with the present. And it isn't just me. Most folks who saw him play in 2022 talked about his improved mechanics, improved decision making. His accuracy was spot on for the most part. Seems there are more haters here than most anywhere else. He will be a backup somewhere next year. Don't know where though.

your big massive improvement of 2022…..still isn’t good.  That’s the point.  And that’s a cherry picked “high”.  Somehow you think his career should all be dismissed in this conversation of what he has proven to be. 

what’s your best game? Bucs? A bad Bucs team.  We lost.  He had 3 turnovers.  Put another on the ground.  He had INTs dropped.   And DJ bailed him out of poorly thrown balls that game.   The bar is so incredibly low for Sam.  Made worse by the fact we have seen nothing but bad QB for years and years now. 

 

[PantherGuy]

22 hours ago, Shocker said:

Question: would we be happy with any rookie QB playing as well as Sam played at the end of the season?  Sam was really solid IMO.  I don’t think we should forget how he improved.

Should we resign Sam and draft other positions?

He did not play well. Wilks just did a better job of gameplanning to keep his mistakes to a minimum.

[ECHornet]

35 minutes ago, CRA said:

your big massive improvement of 2022…..still isn’t good.  That’s the point.  And that’s a cherry picked “high”.  Somehow you think his career should all be dismissed in this conversation of what he has proven to be. 

what’s your best game? Bucs? A bad Bucs team.  We lost.  He had 3 turnovers.  Put another on the ground.  He had INTs dropped.   And DJ bailed him out of poorly thrown balls that game.   The bar is so incredibly low for Sam.  Made worse by the fact we have seen nothing but bad QB for years and years now. 

 

That’s a very slanted portrayal of the Bucs game. One fumble was due to a whiff from Ekwonu and the other an early snap from Boze when Darnold wasn’t looking. Also, one deep ball to DJ he had to come back for bc their dlineman hit Darnold as he threw it. The INT was truly terrible. 
 

You’re wrong about all of his stats being bad. He finished around middle of the pack in many QB stats this year if you extrapolate to 17 games. 

Edited February 10, 2023 by ECHornet

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

your big massive improvement of 2022…..still isn’t good.  That’s the point.  And that’s a cherry picked “high”.  Somehow you think his career should all be dismissed in this conversation of what he has proven to be. 

what’s your best game? Bucs? A bad Bucs team.  We lost.  He had 3 turnovers.  Put another on the ground.  He had INTs dropped.   And DJ bailed him out of poorly thrown balls that game.   The bar is so incredibly low for Sam.  Made worse by the fact we have seen nothing but bad QB for years and years now. 

 

No need trying to change the mind of someone who has already decided the answer and tries to manipulate the facts to fit their agenda. Kinda of hope he stays if nothing else but to liven up these threads.