Sam Darnold

[NanuqoftheNorth]

31 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

I cannot think of a less significant player in Panthers history that has caused so much debate.

Armanti Edwards says hi!

[panthers55]

2 hours ago, CRA said:

PJ Walker had a winning record as a starter in Carolina.   He did his job too.   Doesn't mean we should waste a roster spot on him.   Especially as we seek to wash ourselves of the Rhule era. 

Sam remains the posterchild of the Matt Rhule era.  He also remains the worst starting QB over the last half decade. 

We did win 4 games with Sam Darnold slotted in as QB.  He threw a grand total of 3 touchdowns in those 4 wins.  That's less than a passing TD per game.   We were winning because of a formula to minimize the QB impact and to run the football.  It's a hats off to the rush attack and Steve Wilks.  Not Sam. 

Sam doesn't have potential to develop into a legit starter at this stage.  And he doesn't offer what you seek from an old vet on a depth chart.  So what's the argument to continue to waste a roster spot on him......when you could either fill the spot with potential or wisdom/coaching. 

You don't know what his potential is and your take Darnold was a terrible qb is overblown and refuted by facts.   I am interested in what Reich thinks though. He might not want Sam because he isn't his style of QB or he may have a personal relationship with one he likes better. That is his call. But he will be on someone's roster this Fall and honestly I wouldnt be surprised if PJ is as well. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by panthers55

[CRA]

24 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

How so?  That's quite debatable lol.  Darnold definitely had a better defense, that's about the only thing I'd give him.  I would argue Fields had a slightly less awful receiving corps, a better o-line, and better RBs.  Coaching is TBD cause Adam Gase is mediocre at best and Eberflus just finished his first season.

 

Being paired w/ the #7 vs #29 ranked D is pretty significant.  Hell, that alone would put Sam in a much better position.  Because it requires a significantly different load and ask of an offense.   And the Jets were the #7 ranked D despite being paired w/ the 32nd ranked offense.  Which means in reality, they were even better than they statistically were ranked given the extreme handicap against them. 

and I have long argued Sam Darnold is an imploder.  He makes the cast around him worse.  Not better.   QBs can impact the talent around them in both directions.  LeVeon Bell, Thomas, etc.  Those were legit talents.  Bears didn't have those types.  Sam Darnold simply implodes plays because he can't read a field or allow plays to properly function.  Simms did a good video on how Sam Darnold implodes plays from fucntioning. A good play call, is something Sam alone would make look bad.  Because he couldn't see the field and operate in time of windows. Everyone suffers and looks bad. 

Jets made moves for Sam Darnold in year 2.   It just didn't work.  And the D was good.   That wasn't where Fields found himself in year 2. 

[CRA]

8 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

You don't know what his potential is and your take Darnold was a terrible qb is overblown and refuted by facts.   I am interested in what Reich thinks though. He might not want Sam because he isn't his style of QB or he may have a personal relationship with one he likes better. That is his call. But he will be on someone's roster this Fall and honestly I wouldnt be surprised if PJ is as well. 

We have 5 years of him starting in the NFL.   Sam Darnold is officially terrible by the metrics we discuss starting QBs by in the NFL. 

Refuted by facts?  He was credited with 4 wins in which people are using those 4 as the reason he should return. 

He averaged 144 passing yards in those 4 starts.....while we ran for a mind bogging average of 225 rushing yards per game.  Jimmy Clausen could of found some wins to put by his name in that window.  Sam wasn't playing good.  He wasn't even playing average by NFL statistics.  Wilks just wasn't letting him cost the team a chance.   And that was only possible because our opponents were bad. 

Why folks are stanning for Matt Rhule's disaster QBs as we try to enter a new era is mindboggling. 

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Panthers shouldn't move on from PJ Walker and Sam Darnold simply for the sake of change. 

The Panthers should move on from PJ and Sam because there are numerous journeyman QBs with more playing experience and better game day results sitting at home on their couches.  The bar for replacing these two with better talent is a low one.

Add the fact that Reich and his OC are likely to install a new offense this coming season and it is hard to come up with a justification as to why the Panthers should bother keeping either of these QBs.

[MasterAwesome]

45 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Chicago's OL want ranked higher in PFF mainly due to run blocking.  They also battled injuries all year so it was constantly shuffled.

https://www.si.com/nfl/bears/news/grading-the-bears-on-2022-season

Their pass blocking was so bad it hid the fact they ran for more yards than any Bears team ever and the most in the league. More than 650 yards of Justin Fields' 1,143 came on scrambles, which weren't planned running plays and resulted from the line's inability to protect him. He suffered a league-high 55 sacks. The line did endure nine starting lineup changes due largely to injuries, but they suffered only one bonafide season-ending injury. Only two offensive linemen had as many as five penalties—Braxton Jones (10) and Sam Mustipher (5)—and those two accounted for seven of the line's 15 holding penalties. This unit was good enough to be ranked 14th best offensive line by Pro Football Focus. They're overrated. This was a ranking skewed greatly by their status as the top rushing team for the first time since 1986, and that rushing total was skewed greatly by Fields' scrambling.

Basically their OL pass protection was so bad and their WR's weren't getting open so Fields HAD to run to gain yardage.  However his elite scrambling gave his OL higher ratings in run blocking which is really because of their bad pass blocking?  I think they broke the PFF algorithm?? 

I'll gladly accept that as one account of it.  But it doesn't explain ESPN's pass blocking win rate.  Also I will be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of PFF's grading system, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing that PFF awards the o-line with a boosted run blocking grade because of a QB scrambling.  They're usually pretty nuanced about these things.  That's why a CB could, for example, allow 0 catches for 0 yards and still be graded at a 50 because they get burned every other play and the QB just misses the throws or doesn't look his way.  I've never known PFF to be that superficial to simply look at rushing stats and automatically credit the o-line's run blocking.  They're very meticulous about their analysis and grading.

[CRA]

3 minutes ago, MasterAwesome said:

I'll gladly accept that as one account of it.  But it doesn't explain ESPN's pass blocking win rate.  Also I will be the first to admit I don't know the intricacies of PFF's grading system, but I would have an incredibly hard time believing that PFF awards the o-line with a boosted run blocking grade because of a QB scrambling.  They're usually pretty nuanced about these things.  That's why a CB could, for example, allow 0 catches for 0 yards and still be graded at a 50 because they get burned every other play and the QB just misses the throws or doesn't look his way.  I've never known PFF to be that superficial to simply look at rushing stats and automatically credit the o-line's run blocking.  They're very meticulous about their analysis and grading.

gets really weird IMO with heavy zone read QBs.  Because the line isn't actually run blocking like on a traditional run play. 

[MasterAwesome]

13 minutes ago, CRA said:

Being paired w/ the #7 vs #29 ranked D is pretty significant.  Hell, that alone would put Sam in a much better position.  Because it requires a significantly different load and ask of an offense.   And the Jets were the #7 ranked D despite being paired w/ the 32nd ranked offense.  Which means in reality, they were even better than they statistically were ranked given the extreme handicap against them. 

and I have long argued Sam Darnold is an imploder.  He makes the cast around him worse.  Not better.   QBs can impact the talent around them in both directions.  LeVeon Bell, Thomas, etc.  Those were legit talents.  Bears didn't have those types.  Sam Darnold simply implodes plays because he can't read a field or allow plays to properly function.  Simms did a good video on how Sam Darnold implodes plays from fucntioning. A good play call, is something Sam alone would make look bad.  Because he couldn't see the field and operate in time of windows. Everyone suffers and looks bad. 

Jets made moves for Sam Darnold in year 2.   It just didn't work.  And the D was good.   That wasn't where Fields found himself in year 2. 

So you believe the Panthers had the #2 ranked defense last year right?  Because those are the statistics you're choosing to frame your argument (yardage).

If LeVeon Bell and Demaryius Thomas were considered legit talents at the tail end of their careers, then so is Allen Robinson whose production nosedived last year catching passes from Fields.  I guess Jimmy Graham was also a legit talent last year...sounds like Fields had incredible weapons after all lol.  You can make a strong argument that Fields makes his receivers worse as well.  I mean, of course he does if you believe he's a below average passer (as of now) which I think you would agree with.  Even so, I showed this in a recent post a little while back.  I compared the production from Darnell Mooney when Andy Dalton was under center vs. 2021 Fields vs. 2022 Fields.  He had by far his best production catching passes from Dalton last year (if extrapolating, I think he would've been a ~1300 yard receiver with Dalton) while his production from 2021 Fields and 2022 Fields has been meh.  Mooney I think is a super underrated guy who could be a legit #1 or a strong #2 if he was on another team.  Claypool also struggled significantly more catching passes from Fields vs. Trubisky this year.  You could argue that he was learning the offense, building chemistry, etc. but it's still another data point in the bigger picture.

[CPcavedweller]

Darnold with Josh McCown and Frank Reich? I'm intrigued. Give Matt Corral a real year with his health and a real coaching staff (not Rhule), I'd be interested to see what he had in 2024. I think Darnold can be a really good player.

Dude came in the league very, very young and went to the Jets with Adam Gase. then he came to Carolina with freakin' Matt Rhule. 

If anyone in the league hasn't got a fair shake, it's Sam Darnold. Given his draft position, he's been put in the worst possible spot twice. Then when forced to the bench, he was a Pro's Pro and trusted the process. The Bucs game was rough at the end but Icky was a handkerchief mask trying to block COVID, it just wasn't working. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by CPcavedweller

[MasterAwesome]

6 minutes ago, CRA said:

gets really weird IMO with heavy zone read QBs.  Because the line isn't actually run blocking like on a traditional run play. 

That article was distinguishing designed runs from QB scrambles.  It was specifically saying that Fields' scrambling yardage was inflating the o-line's run blocking grade.  So the line wasn't actually run blocking at all on those plays.  It's plays where presumably the protection breaks down and then Fields takes off running.

[KatsAzz]

If the Panthers did decide to bring back Sam Darnold as a bridge QB, the price should be fairly reasonable.

However, if the Panthers want to bring in a higher-profile veteran name through free agency or the trade market, Derek Carr and Jimmy Garoppolo are two that could make sense. 

Likewise, obtaining  Brissett would not be all that bad of a choice or decision.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

4 minutes ago, KatsAzz said:

Likewise, obtaining  Brissett would not be all that bad of a choice or decision.

Is anyone here going to be shocked if this happens?

Should be able to sign him for about 5 mil.

[KatsAzz]

Just now, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Is anyone here going to be shocked if this happens?

Should be able to sign him for about 5 mil.

Yes,5 million  sounds about right. I saw an earlier report that  stated 5 million was also the same salary projected for Sam Darnold.

[Jon Snow]

This has gone about how I expect it to. The Huddle never disappoints.