What exactly happened to Cam's shoulder? I remember with Jake it was Tommy "Jone" but is Cam's shoulder degenerative as well?

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Most definitely the crime of the decade.  From poor o-linemen to mediocre WRs (minus SS) our front office gave him little to no help. 

The possibilities of his greatness were ruined by Hurney's lack of understanding of how great he was. 

Ehhhh. I think Gettleman gets the majority of the blame here. The line was pretty decent until Dave ran Gross off and replaced him with Byron Bell and a converted DT.

[PNW_PantherMan]

4 hours ago, Luciu5 said:

Wth is Tommy "Jone"? There is a Tommy John surgery, which is elbow. See Brock Purdy. Am I missing something here?

A couple have alluded to it, but Delhomme really wasn't the same after he hurt his elbow.  Some knuckle dragger made a post titled "Tommy Jone hurt Jake arm" and a legend was born.

[cardiackat88.]

4 hours ago, Luciu5 said:

Wth is Tommy "Jone"? There is a Tommy John surgery, which is elbow. See Brock Purdy. Am I missing something here?

It is a joke from like 10 years ago on the huddle when Delhomme got Tommy John surgery. Someone misspelled it as "Tommy Jone".

There is also the infamous "for peak's sake" mistype that caught fire.

[onmyown]

4 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Most definitely the crime of the decade.  From poor o-linemen to mediocre WRs (minus SS) our front office gave him little to no help. 

The possibilities of his greatness were ruined by Hurney's lack of understanding of how great he was. 

Going to disagree.

At one point, aside from a couple hundred yards Cam had a 1k WR, 1k TE and 1k RB. Also he was at his best spreading the ball (2015). 

Also, Cam’s oline ranked 17 his entire career (average). While that is not great, it certainly isn’t like Russell Wilson or Luck had. Albeit Luck’s career was ruined by it.

What truly did Cam in aside from obvious injuries (which were strong contributing factors no doubt) was two related things that what were already mentioned in this thread - coaching and Cam’s negligence on correcting his issues (footwork, anticipation, throwing motion), and the latter was a result of the former.

Not only did dinosaur Ron and Shula not understand the modern greatness Cam possessed (but more importantly were not capable/competent enough anyways to foster it), and thus use him carelessly, they also allowed Cam to be sloppy and rely on his legs and toughness. And Cam never grew as a QB. At the time there were reports Shula wasn’t helping Cam grow and was more like a buddy than a coach. No pointers, no criticism. That cost them, and it cost Cam.

There was that season Cam did work on this throwing motion and it was all the off-season rage because even fans could see his style wouldn’t last. And at the beginning of that season (I forget which), even Ron and Shula tried to use Cam like a normal, stereo typical QB and he rarely ran for the first few games. It was awful. All of us on the forums and stands saw it and were like wtf is going on? Unleash Cam!

But the damage had been done. Really too late in his career to try and start over and you could tell. Habits were there. It was set how this team would win with Cam. By the fourth game, schemes and game plans did a 180 back to what worked and Ron unleashed Supercam we all know and love and yep, the Panthers started dominating.

Now running is what made Cam special, but at some point it just became ridiculous and lazy how Ron and Shula would call plays and coach Cam. In fact the 2015 team were not only fighting opponents, they were fighting inept coaching and play calling. I’ve watched the season several times and it was truly a miracle team with the dumbass poo they had to fight through from their own sidelines. Feel free to go back and see with that in mind.

It is really too bad and who is to say if we had or Cam went to a coach like Payton, Reid, or Mcvay and he was coached and utilized properly things would have turned out different since like I said injuries played a big role as well. We will never know.

[Cdparr7]

I remember in 2016 it was injured trying to make a tackle after a pick believe it was rotator cuff. Then in 2017 it looked okay but I remember seeing a ton of high balls. In 2018, a lot of his successful attempts were short passes to McCaffrey, but his arm looked 2017 form until he got hit by Watt and he had almost no control over any pass further than 10 yards. 

I remember he kept playing in 2018 and each game it got worse to the point that we threw it like 5 times in the night game against New Orleans, I think playing in 2018 did some permanent damage. In 2019 the little he did play his balls were all over the place but everyone blame his footwork, which turned out to be a lis franc injury. 

[demcj]

4 hours ago, exactlyzack said:

Let me tell you. I’ve had 2 shoulder surgeries and an elbow surgery on the same arm. Those 2 shoulder surgeries, as much as they helped, i still don’t have the same use as my shoulder used too. I’m going to have to have another shoulder surgery probably at some point as well. I had both an ac joint separation and a torn labrum, and honestly now my shoulder is probably 75 percent what it used to be.

ouch.

about 5 years ago, i had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff, bicep tendon, and labrum in my left arm. it helped alleviate some of the pain and discomfort, but my shoulder is no where near back to what it used to be...and that's after nearly two years of physical therapy.

at this point, my left arm is more a decorative piece than it is a useful body part. 

Edited February 9, 2023 by demcj

[exactlyzack]

9 minutes ago, demcj said:

ouch.

about 5 years ago, i had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff, bicep tendon, and labrum in my left arm. it helped alleviate some of the pain and discomfort, but my shoulder is no where near back to what it used to be...and that's after nearly two years of physical therapy.

at this point, my left arm is more a decorative piece than it is a useful body part. 

Yepp that’s how my right arm is. The bad thing is I’m right handed. I can do a lot of basic stuff but I’m not comfortable having to do a lot of heavy lifting with it anymore unfortunately.

[Cdparr7]

3 hours ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

A couple have alluded to it, but Delhomme really wasn't the same after he hurt his elbow.  Some knuckle dragger made a post titled "Tommy Jone hurt Jake arm" and a legend was born.

Yeah he looked halfway decent in the beginning of the 2007 season, the only reason he didn’t have any meltdowns in 08 was because Stewart and Williams was running over everybody and teams were playing 9 in the box. Once AZ stopped the run he went total meltdown. The next season against the Eagles when he went total meltdown in the opener I knew he was done.

I was really disappointed in Matt Moore though, really thought he could do something. 

[Carl Spackler]

8 hours ago, Dave Gettleman's Shorts said:

often times, the shoulder has to scar down to a point were the joint becomes stable again but at the same time causes a noticeable reduction in range of motion, thus lesser function and power production.

Exactly what happened to me. Tore my rotator cuff in college

[Carl Spackler]

4 hours ago, cardiackat88. said:

It is a joke from like 10 years ago on the huddle

13 1/2 years ago. Just to age us

[Mage]

11 hours ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

Stop it!

Cam was not on the downside, the dude simply hurt his shoulder and he was never the same after the fact.

 

Cam was a duel threat QB who would miss high on some throws but he definitely could pass in this league. You talking about a QB who was voted #1 by his peers. It's like people want to forget just how great Cam was. We didn't even put anything around him on offense and he was still tearing the league up.

 

#CamSlanderMustStop

Nobody is slandering Cam.  I love Cam.  But if you couldn't tell that physically, he looked noticeably less in 2018 than he did in prior seasons, then I don't know what to tell you.  The TJ Watt did him in, sure.  But more in a "nail in a coffin" kind of way.  He clearly wasn't the athlete he was years prior.  

And you do realize he initially hurt his shoulder in 2016, right?  It isn't like I'm saying he looked terrible in 2016.  But in 2018 you could clearly tell he didn't have the arm strength he used to.  The Watt hit just finished him off.  But it was painfully obvious before that game that we probably didn't have many years left of Cam.

That's why people need to focus less on numbers and more on what you see on the field.  Again, I love Cam.  Top 5 favorite player of all-time.  But I watched him in 2018 and while the numbers were good, again it had far more to do with a change in system than anything else.  Which should tell you how good Cam could have been earlier in his career if we had moved on from Shula sooner.  But his velocity had clearly diminished prior to the Watt hit and he didn't move as well as he used to.

Edited February 9, 2023 by Mage

[GoobyPls]

He got rotator cuff surgery after the 2016 season, I remember in 2017 he rarely passed downfield, I think he had less than a handful of completions over 40 yards that season. In 2018 if you watch the Amazon series you would know his shoulder was fine until the the bucs game (he played good vs the lions following the Steelers game). 

[heel31ok]

12 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Turns out you probably should invest in better OTs than Bryon Bell and Mike Remmers and not use your fuging QB as a bulldozer every single drive

Nah that can't be it

[DJ feed me moore]

14 hours ago, Mage said:

Everyone talks about the hit from Watt and I'm sure that made things worse, but if you actually paid attention to Cam that season, you could tell he was on the downside.  Yes, his numbers were good and CMP% at a career high, but that was because he was no longer playing in Shula's archaic offensive system (easily the worst OC I've ever seen and boggles my mind some people defended him).  He had no air on his throws.  I mean hell the Eagles game was a great comeback but there was little to no heat behind his throws that game.

The truth of the matter is, as much as I love Cam and he'll always be among my favorites regardless of jersey or sport, he was never a great passer anyway.  So once he lost some of his arm strength, it isn't a surprise he fell off a cliff.  Not to mention his athleticism took a hit too.  Not sure why, but he was noticeably slower and less agile than before.

going Vegan is what did him in. Also funny you mention the eagles game from 2018... He took one of the nastiest hits on that shoulder during that game and no one ever talks about it cause Cam popped right up and kept on chugging along but I swear, that hit is what started it all, TJ just finished it off 6 weeks later.