Should I pay this invoice? Seems really fishy

[cardiackat88.]

Ok, so here's the deal.

My wife was trying super hard to sell our house, and the buyer had some hard-on for getting the house "mold tested".

This was in Illinois, and after a long series of painful calls and emails, it became apparent to me that actual "mold testing" is reserved for EPA type stuff and is only conducted at large businesses.

The realtor was NO help finding anyone to make this happen and my wife took the initiative to find someone. The big names in the area were totally swamped with frozen pipes and flooding already, but eventually got back to us to inform us they did not provide mold testing.

Anyways, my wife eventually found a company through Angieslist (which was a MAJOR red flag to me) and a guy came out to do an estimate. He said it would be "about $5,000 or so" which sounded nuts but we were desperately trying to sell this house. There was no paperwork exchanged, and nothing was signed.

He sent a crew to the house, and once again, no paperwork was presented or signed before or after the (poor excuse for) work was performed.

The worker asked me to pay with Venmo, which I then told him to send me an invoice. He looked really disappointed as if he knew he was not going to get paid.

The invoice is extremely vague, and I have attached it to this thread.

There is no way in hell this "work" was worth nearly $3,500. 

So what would you do? Just pay it? Haggle with him? Tell him to get real? 

The "invoice" doesn't even have my legal first name on it, and I never signed anything AT ALL.

Yes, some people came out and did some "work" so totally stiffing him does not seem right. Paying this obnoxious amount for him to send a crew of scummy guys (one of them left my house and knocked on the neighbors door three doors down for no believable reason. He claimed his saw burned up but did not ask us if we had one).

What is some advice for this, and what would you do?

Invoice.pdf

[PanthersATL]

(did I read this here earlier?)

any contractor that insists on Venmo - especially without a signed contract - is likely not licensed, insured, or paying appropriate taxes etc.

 

[Khyber53]

Well, looking at the invoice, then checking the BBB site about them, they look like they've had some unhappy customers.

I think I would ask them for an itemized invoice because you can't tell if they've done anything. A good company should be able to provide you with details.

If they were at your house and did work at your request, which it seems they did, then they have a legal basis for the transaction. Your best bet is to get them to explain and itemize the work. You can then pick away at the things you know they didn't do and perhaps negotiate down the price.

If you just bail, they have legal recourses that can affect the sale of your home, particularly a mechanic's lien which would have to be satisfied by either you or the buyer before the sale can be finalized.

Stop trying to do this house sale on the cheap. Go find one of the big name real estate agencies to list and sell your house. It sounds like you folks have been screwed from the start with fishy deals and requests from the get go. There is a whole industry out there based on doing what you are going through, it is slimy and sticky. Pay the 2% more in commission and be assured that the bigger name companies (with real Realtor (TM) tags) will treat you better and within all bounds of the law.

Edit to add: I got my NC Real Estate sales license in 1991 when I was 22 years old, I've completed the NC Residential Home Appraisers course, I would have been a fourth generation carpenter/cabinet maker, grew up doing carpentry with my Dad's family and masonry with my stepfather. My father and grandfather both had their own construction companies for decades (my grandfather built his last house at the age of  84 and his father ran a cabinet shop until he was 90). My father also ran a real estate brokerage and was a Realtor for 20 years before going back to school and getting his master's degree in architecture). I've bought and sold houses on the homeowner side as well. Not trying to puff up my credentials, just trying to  show that I've got a bit of a foundation in this area. There are other people here that have even more experience than I. Trust them.

Edited February 8, 2023 by Khyber53

[Khyber53]

10 minutes ago, PanthersATL said:

(did I read this here earlier?)

any contractor that insists on Venmo - especially without a signed contract - is likely not licensed, insured, or paying appropriate taxes etc.

 

Always check for licensing AND that they have insurance and workman's comp insurance for their employees on site before doing ANYTHING. And if there is any actual construction, make sure to get a city/county inspection -- they'll tell you that it isn't necessary like they are trying to save you the hassle, but those inspections are to protect the home owner NOT the contractor.

So many shady people in the home selling and constructing business. There are good ones out there, though. It pays to do your work to find them.

[cardiackat88.]

6 hours ago, PanthersATL said:

(did I read this here earlier?)

any contractor that insists on Venmo - especially without a signed contract - is likely not licensed, insured, or paying appropriate taxes etc.

 

The bill he sent me has options to pay online with credit cards, etc

6 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

Well, looking at the invoice, then checking the BBB site about them, they look like they've had some unhappy customers.

I think I would ask them for an itemized invoice because you can't tell if they've done anything. A good company should be able to provide you with details.

If they were at your house and did work at your request, which it seems they did, then they have a legal basis for the transaction. Your best bet is to get them to explain and itemize the work. You can then pick away at the things you know they didn't do and perhaps negotiate down the price.

If you just bail, they have legal recourses that can affect the sale of your home, particularly a mechanic's lien which would have to be satisfied by either you or the buyer before the sale can be finalized.

Stop trying to do this house sale on the cheap. Go find one of the big name real estate agencies to list and sell your house. It sounds like you folks have been screwed from the start with fishy deals and requests from the get go. There is a whole industry out there based on doing what you are going through, it is slimy and sticky. Pay the 2% more in commission and be assured that the bigger name companies (with real Realtor (TM) tags) will treat you better and within all bounds of the law.

Edit to add: I got my NC Real Estate sales license in 1991 when I was 22 years old, I've completed the NC Residential Home Appraisers course, I would have been a fourth generation carpenter/cabinet maker, grew up doing carpentry with my Dad's family and masonry with my stepfather. My father and grandfather both had their own construction companies for decades (my grandfather built his last house at the age of  84 and his father ran a cabinet shop until he was 90). My father also ran a real estate brokerage and was a Realtor for 20 years before going back to school and getting his master's degree in architecture). I've bought and sold houses on the homeowner side as well. Not trying to puff up my credentials, just trying to  show that I've got a bit of a foundation in this area. There are other people here that have even more experience than I. Trust them.

I have called off the sale of the house, and considered asking the realty company to pay for this “work”.

Also, does he have any legal basis at all to do anything to me? I never signed ANYthing, at all.

[GOAT]

looks legit to me. probably going to have to bite the bullet and pay him on this one.

I just had a guy from angieslist come paint my door today. I prefer to pay venmo or zelle for small jobs but he only took check or CC info. 

[Khyber53]

14 hours ago, cardiackat88. said:

The bill he sent me has options to pay online with credit cards, etc

I have called off the sale of the house, and considered asking the realty company to pay for this “work”.

Also, does he have any legal basis at all to do anything to me? I never signed ANYthing, at all.

Yeah, he has legal basis to charge you the bill and then to seek remuneration for it. Your best bet is to try and negotiate down the price and then settle it. Chalk it up to experience.

 

[cardiackat88.]

24 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Yeah, he has legal basis to charge you the bill and then to seek remuneration for it. Your best bet is to try and negotiate down the price and then settle it. Chalk it up to experience.

 

This is just really bizarre to me, because in theory, he could just whip up an invoice for anyone and take action,

[Khyber53]

Just now, cardiackat88. said:

This is just really bizarre to me, because in theory, he could just whip up an invoice for anyone and take action,

Except that in this case, a judge would ask you, "Did his workers go into your house?"

"Well, yes, they did."

"If they weren't working for you, why did you let them in?"

Case closed.

[cardiackat88.]

10 minutes ago, Khyber53 said:

Except that in this case, a judge would ask you, "Did his workers go into your house?"

"Well, yes, they did."

"If they weren't working for you, why did you let them in?"

Case closed.

Hmm ok.

I think I am just going to dispute and negotiate the bill.

It is not very detailed or itimized IMO.

[Khyber53]

3 hours ago, cardiackat88. said:

 

It is not very detailed or itimized IMO.

And there's where you work it. Start by saying, "Help me out here, what things am I being billed for? Could you please itemize the services? Then ask them to resend the invoice for payment."

Once they do that you can pick out the things that didn't get done... You have to get them to set the playing field, but only after you've led them to it. 

And when negotiating any of the items, always be apologetic and say things like, "Yanno, I don't remember that this service in line four was done, can you help me with that?" Always ask them to help you and you will make a lot of way on this.

And never say you will pay until all of the negotiated prices are delineated in the invoice that you agree to. Then, pay it quickly and include a note saying Thanks for working with me on this.

 

[cardiackat88.]

4 hours ago, Khyber53 said:

And there's where you work it. Start by saying, "Help me out here, what things am I being billed for? Could you please itemize the services? Then ask them to resend the invoice for payment."

Once they do that you can pick out the things that didn't get done... You have to get them to set the playing field, but only after you've led them to it. 

And when negotiating any of the items, always be apologetic and say things like, "Yanno, I don't remember that this service in line four was done, can you help me with that?" Always ask them to help you and you will make a lot of way on this.

And never say you will pay until all of the negotiated prices are delineated in the invoice that you agree to. Then, pay it quickly and include a note saying Thanks for working with me on this.

 

Ok, I’m going to lead with this.

I really hate dealing with people SO much.

 

[Shocker]

Make them do the work to collect the debt.  Wait them out.  It will benefit you in a number of ways including de-scamming it

[Khyber53]

3 hours ago, cardiackat88. said:

Ok, I’m going to lead with this.

I really hate dealing with people SO much.

 

The key to every negotiation is realizing that both sides want to come out with some kind of positive result. Sometimes it's just the smallest victory someone needs before they will concede and walk away from the dispute.

Some people don't realize what the real win is. In your case it is getting this settled and out of the way so it doesn't come back and bite you.