New Scheme

[45catfan]

11 minutes ago, stan786 said:

I disagree a bit, mainly I think the majority of our Edge Rushers are built to play much better in a 3-4 other than YGM. I agree that NT and depth on the three DL spots are a need but also those tend to be spots you can bring in serviceable players for reasonable deals. I would argue that Anderson and Brown make find Ends in the scheme, and there are some good NT available in FA this offseason that generally dont come that expensive.

So I feel like its just a trade from having small ends for a 4-3 to having to find a NT for a 3-4, and pass rushers are much harder to find generally.

Anderson is a FA.  So that leaves Brown who is a starter at one end.  Putting names into holes in the roster doesn't work.  McCall/Roy are true NTs, let alone starting quality? YGM is a 5-tech?  We have two starting holes and 3, possibly 4, backups spots.  Honestly, I would shop YGM and see what we can get for him.  Once it's all said and done, Roy and McCall may not even make the roster with this new scheme.  Let's be honest here.

Edited February 6, 2023 by 45catfan

[TheCasillas]

33 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I don’t hope we do, but man we are paper thin. Same goes on the entire roster.

I think people need to expect another rebuilding year because as you said we need a bunch of pieces on offense as well.

This is said about every team's roster this time of year... You can't really lean into this type of thinking until after draft and free agency. Every team has expiring contracts and roster turnover. It's a matter of having your key pieces in place... not the depth at this point in the offseason.

 

ie... our oline at this point last year.... 

[Wolfcop]

Coach Evero also said he will adjust his scheme to for the personnel. Therefore, his scheme may look slightly  different from year to year. 

[Peon Awesome]

6 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

You can find serviceable space eater NTs for a 3-4 in FA and the draft fairly easily. Brown I think will do much better as a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DT. Burns, Barno, Haynes are tailor made as 3-4 OLBs. As others mentioned, re-signing Anderson as a 3-4 DE makes sense as well. I think the personnel is much more suited to 3-4 than 4-3 on the whole. Need to rebuild DL depth and find a ballhawk FS, but besides that, think we're pretty decently set-up for the shift.

Agreed. I don't know why anyone would worry about fit for guys barely deserving a roster spot like YGM. You can't possibly be satisfied with YGM as our starting 4-3 DE so if we have to sign or draft someone to upgrade him there, why not a 3-4 DE instead? Then throw in a NT and we're better off across the board than we were this past year, with our stars in a more natural fit to boot.

[CPcavedweller]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Mike Kaye posted this...

 

We don't have the personnel to run a 3-4 right now. We don't have the ends, we don't have the linebackers. Our secondary should be good to go as they can play man on the outside.

Horn isn't going to be wasted playing Free Safety. He can cover man up really well and you'll need that when you're covering space given up by the 4th rusher. 

I love odd man fronts but fans really need to understand that this, like under Ron when he was going to make the change, will be a process. Tepper needs to get out of the way and understand that he has a good staff and it will take time to get dudes in place. Haynes and Burns are the only true fits in the front 7 right now.

I'd look for us to take a guy like Jerrod Clark out of Coastal Carolina. 6'4 350 lbs and has an explosive first step as well as the ability to anchor a 0 tech.

Derrick Brown could be a 3 or 5 tech, Burns can slide down inside or even play the dog position. You could draft a guy like Nick Hampton out of App State to also run dog as he can cover and rush, almost identically to Burns considering he's 6'3 with like 83 inch arms or something ridiculous. Runs a 4.5 to 4.6 40. 

Might take a guy like Bumper Pool, All-American ILB out of Arkansas. He's not a speed demon but he is a very good football player.

Everyone I mentioned will likely be Day 3 picks. If we want to win sooner rather than later, I think we have to trade down to stack defensive talent. What do the Eagles and 49er's have? Great defensive players all over the Front 7. 

If we trade up to get a QB we are going to delay any progress on a defensive transition. Ron wasn't given time, let's see if Tepper will be patient this time around. If he had given Ron another three years instead of Rhule I could almost guarantee we would've been in the playoffs again.

Rash decision making rarely works out in this sport.

[CamTheMan]

Pick up a real anchor up the middle in free agency and draft Calijah Kancey (check his film holy balls) in the 2nd.

Run downs

OLBs: Burns, YGM

DEs: Kancey, Derrick Brown

NT: Free Agent

Mixed downs

OLBs: Burns, Haynes

DEs: Kancey, Ioannidis

NT: Brown

 

NASCAR

DEs: Burns, Barno

DTs: Kancey, Ioannidis
 

If a quarterback doesn’t fall to us and we can’t trade back, I’d fugg around and take another edge or corner at #9. I know we need a qb, but at this point I’d be down to build a perennial top 3 defense, match it with a great OL/run game, then just chuck Corral in and see if he sucks or not. If he does suck, go all in next year and put the rookie qb in an insanely good position to succeed. 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, Wolfcop said:

Coach Evero also said he will adjust his scheme to for the personnel. Therefore, his scheme may look slightly  different from year to year. 

Kinda silly to adjust his system due to a few low-end/under performing/back up players from our old 4-3 scheme.  Bite the bullet and basically retool the entire DL.  The back seven will be fine, not much concern there.  Don't hold up the plan because of a few miscast players.

[Jesse]

Just an FYI for anyone who’s curious, a 4-2-5/4-3 under front is the same as a 3-4 with a few differences, but essentially the same. 

[45catfan]

6 minutes ago, CamTheMan said:

Pick up a real anchor up the middle in free agency and draft Calijah Kancey (check his film holy balls) in the 2nd.

Run downs

OLBs: Burns, YGM

DEs: Kancey, Derrick Brown

NT: Free Agent

Mixed downs

OLBs: Burns, Haynes

DEs: Kancey, Ioannidis

NT: Brown

 

NASCAR

DEs: Burns, Barno

DTs: Kancey, Ioannidis
 

If a quarterback doesn’t fall to us and we can’t trade back, I’d fugg around and take another edge or corner at #9. I know we need a qb, but at this point I’d be down to build a perennial top 3 defense, match it with a great OL/run game, then just chuck Corral in and see if he sucks or not. If he does suck, go all in next year and put the rookie qb in an insanely good position to succeed. 

Ioannidis is a FA...he's still on our books due to voided* years. 

*I absolutely freaking HATE that accounting BS.  Let's not turn into the Saints.

[stan786]

21 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Anderson is a FA.  So that leaves Brown who is a starter at one end.  Putting names into holes in the roster doesn't work.  McCall/Roy are true NTs, let alone starting quality? YGM is a 5-tech?  We have two starting holes and 3, possibly 4, backups spots.  Honestly, I would shop YGM and see what we can get for him.  Once it's all said and done, Roy and McCall may not even make the roster with this new scheme.  Let's be honest here.

Yeah I never mentioned Roy and McCall for a reason, I agreed we had to sign a NT and build some depth but as I said I think that's easier than what we were doing with playing small Edges at 4-3 ends.

Anderson is just a cheap natural resigning.

In a 4-3 we'd need to find another couple ends if we really wanted to run it because Haynes and Barno arent a real fit there, YGM has been fine but nothing special.

You can run Luvu and Burns at OLB and rotate in speed rushers that we do have in the 3-4.

I'd also try and move YGM but not sure what you can get for him.

[45catfan]

2 minutes ago, stan786 said:

Yeah I never mentioned Roy and McCall for a reason, I agreed we had to sign a NT and build some depth but as I said I think that's easier than what we were doing with playing small Edges at 4-3 ends.

Anderson is just a cheap natural resigning.

In a 4-3 we'd need to find another couple ends if we really wanted to run it because Haynes and Barno arent a real fit there, YGM has been fine but nothing special.

You can run Luvu and Burns at OLB and rotate in speed rushers that we do have in the 3-4.

I'd also try and move YGM but not sure what you can get for him.

If we had a ton of cap space, I'd be more inclined to pick up a few 3-4 D-linemen in FA and draft for depth.  That's still likely the plan, be we have to be creative and go 'Dollar General' shopping.  The last thing I want is a bunch of Ioannidis-type of contracts for short term rentals.

[stan786]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

If we had a ton of cap space, I'd be more inclined to pick up a few 3-4 D-linemen in FA and draft for depth.  That's still likely the plan, be we have to be creative and go 'Dollar General' shopping.  The last thing I want is a bunch of Ioannidis-type of contracts for short term rentals.

Sure and that is what i'm saying, historically those 3-4 DL tend to come quite a bit cheaper than what you would need to spend to get another pass rusher. I dont think our team is built perfectly for either the 4-3 or 3-4 i'm just saying we will have an easier time playing to our strengths in a 3-4 and the holes will be cheaper to fill.

[thefuzz]

40 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

You can find serviceable space eater NTs for a 3-4 in FA and the draft fairly easily. Brown I think will do much better as a 3-4 DE than a 4-3 DT. Burns, Barno, Haynes are tailor made as 3-4 OLBs. As others mentioned, re-signing Anderson as a 3-4 DE makes sense as well. I think the personnel is much more suited to 3-4 than 4-3 on the whole. Need to rebuild DL depth and find a ballhawk FS, but besides that, think we're pretty decently set-up for the shift.

I actually think that Brown would do pretty well as a 5 tech...we will need to find a NT though...IMO that's easier said than done...hope we are eyeing that position on day 2.

[Carl Spackler]

The last time this team fielded a 3-4 defense that was good, was 1996. The attempts since then (1997-'99 or so, 2019) were absolute dogshit