The NFL is Rigged

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, Toomers said:

How did it happen? What would that influence entail that isn’t rigging. 
 

  Please list the NFL players who threw games. I can think of maybe one. How about baseball? Who are all these players? 
 

  It’s also not crazy to think people, even the best, make mistakes. You ever called a game. In any sport? I guess maybe hiring all new replacement refs would help. It worked great before. 
 

 

Influence is just that.  Influence.  Increase the probability for success in one direction.  Doesn't guarantee anything.....because you know, there are 22 players on the field playing a game. 

I said sports.  It's documented in sports.   Because there are examples of everything you say can't and doesn't happen all over sports.  So your argument would have to be the NFL is an outlier and unique from it.  Just because.  And not just sports really, just unique in life.  That the NFL is clean, whereas virtually nothing else is. 

There is literally an owner in a lawsuit right now for trying to pay his coach to intentionally lose games.   Why do you think a NFL owner felt comfortable with that?    NFL is and has always been full of sketchy people.  You find them where the money is. 

 

[Toomers]

Just now, CRA said:

Influence is just that.  Influence.  Increase the probability for success in one direction.  Doesn't guarantee anything.....because you know, there are 22 players on the field playing a game. 

I said sports.  It's documented in sports.   Because there are examples of everything you say can't and doesn't happen all over sports.  So your argument would have to be the NFL is an outlier and unique from it.  Just because.  And not just sports really, just unique in life.  That the NFL is clean, whereas virtually nothing else is. 

 

 

So how much cheating is involved in influencing. What would be something that random NFL official tells NFL ref to do. But not too much. 
 

    Then it should be easy to give numerous examples instead of deflection. You brought other sports into it. My statement was that in a league where everything is set up for every team to be around 500 with equal resources, why would they mess with the chance of ruining it all for a certain team to win. When that same team wasn’t worthy last year?

MLB has teams paying 400M/yr and some paying 50M. Their balance problem isn’t with umpires. 

 

   

[Panthera onca]

https://www.thefixisin.net/the-2022-nfl-season

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Toomers said:

So how much cheating is involved in influencing. What would be something that random NFL official tells NFL ref to do. But not too much. 
 

    Then it should be easy to give numerous examples instead of deflection. You brought other sports into it. My statement was that in a league where everything is set up for every team to be around 500 with equal resources, why would they mess with the chance of ruining it all for a certain team to win. When that same team wasn’t worthy last year?

MLB has teams paying 400M/yr and some paying 50M. Their balance problem isn’t with umpires. 

 

   

Depends on the teams.  Lots of possibilities. Maybe you intentionally put a crew on a game that calls games certain ways that would benefit one over the other.  Maybe you speak to the head ref about a point of emphasis in a game that would favor one team over the other that hasn't been stressed prior.    Maybe a certain player gets stressed.  Protected.  Unprotected.  That would be the influencing.

Then there is the real shady stuff.  Like refs being paid by forces outside the actual league office.  Which might not be the outcome.....maybe it's just the points and type game to be allowed.  I mean, that certainly easy to do to.  You could easily encourage a game to be lower scoring. 

They aren't going to risk ruining it all by influencing outcomes.  Baseball still on TV after all their scandals?  NBA?  

 

[Sgt Schultz]

Toomers and I have had this discussion before to no avail, and I am not criticizing him.

Do I think some NFL games have been greatly influenced by the league?  Yes. 

Do I think the NFL scripts the outcome of every game (ala professional wrestling) or even a game a week or month?  No.

What generally grabs my attention that something may be "unusual" (any sport) is when the officials suddenly start making calls during a game that have not been made during the season or playoffs prior to that moment.  Not one call, a series.  Anybody can miss one call, and then try to make up for it the other way at the next opportunity.

When it happens at the start of a game, the league probably issued an "interpretation" or "point of emphasis" after the previous game.  The teams get those same notices, so they know (or should know) it is coming.  But it does not happen during a game.  And it is highly unlikely that two, three, or more officials suddenly decide that at the 8:00 mark of the third quarter (for example) we are going to start calling all contact in the secondary. 

I was a college baseball umpire for several years.  We would get interpretations or points of emphasis every now and then.  It was somewhat rare, but not unheard of and usually in reference to some dust up or series of escalating dust ups the conference wanted to put an end to.  Without exception, when we would ask the coaches prior to the game whether they received the same notice, the answer was yes.  I know for a fact MLB issues them on a regular basis.  I would suspect the NFL does, too (and under Goodell, who is the most reactionary commissioner the NFL has had in my lifetime, I suspect they send them out far too often).

If you are watching any sport and wondering why "the officials never call that," it is very likely because they have received direction not to.  The few instances that come to mind over the years fall outside of that, when all of a sudden the calls changed mid-stream, and some were over the top.

People that are quick to yell "the whole thing is fixed" have never learned life's lesson to not search for a conspiracy when incompetence can answer the question. 

As for the general decline in quality in officiating over the years, the last time the NFL addressed the number of onfield officials was 1978.  Back then, teams would send out three receivers, and three back-line officials could handle that.  We still have three back-line officials and now four downfield receivers are relatively normal, and we took the umpire out of a position where he could help.  "What did we think was going to happen?" 

Add to that, the players are faster than they were in 1978, the schemes more sophisticated, and then we added instant replay and instructed the officials to make borderline calls in a way that could be corrected if needed, not make the correct call as they saw it and let the chips fall where they may.  All that earns another "what did we think was going to happen."

To those wanting to fix all this with technology, it works until it doesn't, and when it doesn't the results leave everybody baffled.  I work in aviation, and the industry is in a constant battle over how much automation is too much. 

[Mr. Scot]

57 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

It's okay if you are a natural skeptic.  You are entitled to your opinion that everyone should trust every press release.

And you're free to wear your tinfoil hat...

[Toomers]

9 minutes ago, CRA said:

Depends on the teams.  Lots of possibilities. Maybe you intentionally put a crew on a game that calls games certain ways that would benefit one over the other.  Maybe you speak to the head ref about a point of emphasis in a game that would favor one team over the other that hasn't been stressed prior.    Maybe a certain player gets stressed.  Protected.  Unprotected.  That would be the influencing.

Then there is the real shady stuff.  Like refs being paid by forces outside the actual league office.  Which might not be the outcome.....maybe it's just the points and type game to be allowed.  I mean, that certainly easy to do to.  You could easily encourage a game to be lower scoring. 

They aren't going to risk ruining it all by influencing outcomes.  Baseball still on TV after all their scandals?  NBA?  

 

 

So basically your fan fiction version should be treated as fact and basic facts should just take a back seat on this one. If this happens, why haven’t the Jets, Giants, Bears been more successful. That would increase viewership, clicks, everything more than any teams. The owners not interested in those millions of fans? 
 

  Which league is on top. Where are all these documented players who have been proven to throw games? 

[KatsAzz]

[Toomers]

10 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Toomers and I have had this discussion before to no avail, and I am not criticizing him.

Do I think some NFL games have been greatly influenced by the league?  Yes. 

Do I think the NFL scripts the outcome of every game (ala professional wrestling) or even a game a week or month?  No.

What generally grabs my attention that something may be "unusual" (any sport) is when the officials suddenly start making calls during a game that have not been made during the season or playoffs prior to that moment.  Not one call, a series.  Anybody can miss one call, and then try to make up for it the other way at the next opportunity.

When it happens at the start of a game, the league probably issued an "interpretation" or "point of emphasis" after the previous game.  The teams get those same notices, so they know (or should know) it is coming.  But it does not happen during a game.  And it is highly unlikely that two, three, or more officials suddenly decide that at the 8:00 mark of the third quarter (for example) we are going to start calling all contact in the secondary. 

I was a college baseball umpire for several years.  We would get interpretations or points of emphasis every now and then.  It was somewhat rare, but not unheard of and usually in reference to some dust up or series of escalating dust ups the conference wanted to put an end to.  Without exception, when we would ask the coaches prior to the game whether they received the same notice, the answer was yes.  I know for a fact MLB issues them on a regular basis.  I would suspect the NFL does, too (and under Goodell, who is the most reactionary commissioner the NFL has had in my lifetime, I suspect they send them out far too often).

If you are watching any sport and wondering why "the officials never call that," it is very likely because they have received direction not to.  The few instances that come to mind over the years fall outside of that, when all of a sudden the calls changed mid-stream, and some were over the top.

People that are quick to yell "the whole thing is fixed" have never learned life's lesson to not search for a conspiracy when incompetence can answer the question. 

As for the general decline in quality in officiating over the years, the last time the NFL addressed the number of onfield officials was 1978.  Back then, teams would send out three receivers, and three back-line officials could handle that.  We still have three back-line officials and now four downfield receivers are relatively normal, and we took the umpire out of a position where he could help.  "What did we think was going to happen?" 

Add to that, the players are faster than they were in 1978, the schemes more sophisticated, and then we added instant replay and instructed the officials to make borderline calls in a way that could be corrected if needed, not make the correct call as they saw it and let the chips fall where they may.  All that earns another "what did we think was going to happen."

To those wanting to fix all this with technology, it works until it doesn't, and when it doesn't the results leave everybody baffled.  I work in aviation, and the industry is in a constant battle over how much automation is too much. 

  I’m having a hard time remembering what I debated you about because that was all very well said. From someone who has clearly put on the stripes(or mask). I agree with all you said except that they influence games (intentionally) at all. But I respect the opinion from the knowledge it was born from. 
 

    My issue is the whole league is bent on every bad call mantra. 
 

    

[rayzor]

15 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

Toomers and I have had this discussion before to no avail, and I am not criticizing him.

Do I think some NFL games have been greatly influenced by the league?  Yes. 

Do I think the NFL scripts the outcome of every game (ala professional wrestling) or even a game a week or month?  No.

What generally grabs my attention that something may be "unusual" (any sport) is when the officials suddenly start making calls during a game that have not been made during the season or playoffs prior to that moment.  Not one call, a series.  Anybody can miss one call, and then try to make up for it the other way at the next opportunity.

When it happens at the start of a game, the league probably issued an "interpretation" or "point of emphasis" after the previous game.  The teams get those same notices, so they know (or should know) it is coming.  But it does not happen during a game.  And it is highly unlikely that two, three, or more officials suddenly decide that at the 8:00 mark of the third quarter (for example) we are going to start calling all contact in the secondary. 

I was a college baseball umpire for several years.  We would get interpretations or points of emphasis every now and then.  It was somewhat rare, but not unheard of and usually in reference to some dust up or series of escalating dust ups the conference wanted to put an end to.  Without exception, when we would ask the coaches prior to the game whether they received the same notice, the answer was yes.  I know for a fact MLB issues them on a regular basis.  I would suspect the NFL does, too (and under Goodell, who is the most reactionary commissioner the NFL has had in my lifetime, I suspect they send them out far too often).

If you are watching any sport and wondering why "the officials never call that," it is very likely because they have received direction not to.  The few instances that come to mind over the years fall outside of that, when all of a sudden the calls changed mid-stream, and some were over the top.

People that are quick to yell "the whole thing is fixed" have never learned life's lesson to not search for a conspiracy when incompetence can answer the question. 

As for the general decline in quality in officiating over the years, the last time the NFL addressed the number of onfield officials was 1978.  Back then, teams would send out three receivers, and three back-line officials could handle that.  We still have three back-line officials and now four downfield receivers are relatively normal, and we took the umpire out of a position where he could help.  "What did we think was going to happen?" 

Add to that, the players are faster than they were in 1978, the schemes more sophisticated, and then we added instant replay and instructed the officials to make borderline calls in a way that could be corrected if needed, not make the correct call as they saw it and let the chips fall where they may.  All that earns another "what did we think was going to happen."

To those wanting to fix all this with technology, it works until it doesn't, and when it doesn't the results leave everybody baffled.  I work in aviation, and the industry is in a constant battle over how much automation is too much. 

until they find a fix, every call made by the refs needs to be challengeable and reviewed by the booth in NY or wherever that booth is. for sure, limit the number of challenges that can be made, but don't put limits on what can be challenged. 

[Donald LaFell]

I don’t really mind the rigged accusations because the ref quality is unacceptable 

at this point is just feels naive to not be skeptical. I think the refs and the NFL as a whole has a directive to put their finger on the scales when they can. 

[Toomers]

3 minutes ago, rayzor said:

until they find a fix, every call made by the refs needs to be challengeable and reviewed by the booth in NY or wherever that booth is. for sure, limit the number of challenges that can be made, but don't put limits on what can be challenged. 

Because it worked so well when they overreacted to the Saints bad call and reviewed PI calls. 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, Donald LaFell said:

I don’t really mind the rigged accusations because the ref quality is unacceptable 

at this point is just feels naive to not be skeptical. I think the refs and the NFL as a whole has a directive to put their finger on the scales when they can. 

From an outside "40,000 feet high" perspective, yeah I could see that.

When you dig into the details of just how complicated it would be to pull off, and especially how damn near impossible it would be to keep quiet in the age of digital media and cameras everywhere, It becomes a lot easier to doubt.

[SmokinwithWilly]

When I knew the game was "influenced" was SB50. Aqib Talib grabs Philly Brown by the facemask and throws him out of bounds. This was only given a 15 yard facemask penalty at the time. Fast forward to after the Super Bowl and Talib comes out and says he was intentionally trying to injure Brown. He could have severely injured or killed him. The punishment. A 25k fine. He openly admitted and laughed about what Sean Payton was suspended a year for doing. And the league did nothing. The league got what they wanted and Manning went out a winner.