This is starting to get nasty with coach wilks.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

12 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm a big fan of Steve Wilks because I think he's a great leader and a man of phenomenal character.

I'm also someone who always tries not to let their emotions affect their decision making.

As we came down the stretch this past season, I increasingly came to the belief that Wilks was not going to get the Panthers job. He certainly made the team better than it had been, but was it a good enough coaching performance to win the permanent job?

My gut said no, and that was even before we knew who any of the other candidates would be.

As you said though, compare Wilks and Reich in a vacuum and it's pretty difficult not to choose Reich.

I tend to pull for the underdog and Wilks was definitely that being handed responsibility for a trainwreck not of his own design.  It would have been a great Hollywood ending to have Wilks named HC.

Wilks' calling card is his defensive expertise and what he should be primarily judged by.  Unfortunately, there were too many defensive lapses down the stretch that called into question if Wilks would really be the best candidate for the job.  

I think comparisons of Wilks to Rivera and Fox are close enough to be fair and that their style of coaching is no longer viable in today's NFL, at least not if your ultimate goal is to win a SB. 

Edited January 28, 2023 by NanuqoftheNorth

[panthers55]

21 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Actually, his limiting Darnold to passing as little as possible is what made the offense at least somewhat workable.

As far as what he could have done with Andrew Luck, what did the offensive line look like? Who did he have at the skill positions? Did he have a defense that could keep the other team from scoring? What kind of scheme did they run? And what about the special teams?

The notion that if you just change the quarterback, everything else changes too is unrealistic. You couldn't just put Tom Brady on last year's Texans roster and automatically assume they make the playoffs.

I'd add if you want to get into Wilks actual area of expertise, then you'd need to try and defend why he handled coverage of Mike Evans the way he did. 

Simple. He was down 2 starting corners and was starting practice squad guys. Second there was supposed to be safety coverage over the top which was late. Why the confusion? Because Wilks was down several staff including in the secondary. So he wasn't able to get them the practice they needed and do everything else as a head coach.

. I read Wilks was having to work with individual players in the secondary himself because he was short on staff and there was so much to do.

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

Simple. He was down 2 starting corners and was starting practice squad guys. Second there was supposed to be safety coverage over the top which was late. Why the confusion? Because Wilks was down several staff including in the secondary. So he wasn't able to get them the practice they needed and do everything else as a head coach.

. I read Wilks was having to work with individual players in the secondary himself because he was short on staff and there was so much to do.

That might work as an excuse for the first time it happened.

Three times though?

You really want to try and tell me that at no point for the rest of the game did Wilks have an opportunity to just go say to Al Holcomb or even directly to one of his safeties "hey, we need to not let that happen again".

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[panthers55]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

That might work as an excuse for the first time it happened.

Three times though?

You really want to try and tell me that at no point for the rest of the game did Wilks have an opportunity to just go say to Al Holcomb or even directly to one of his safeties "hey, we need to not let that happen again".

What exactly could he change? CJ was our best corner and got burned. Double him? The secondary was supposed to be doing that. You can know what to do and still fail at doing it. Do you really think Wilks said don't worry about it  and let's let him do it a few more times. You really want me to believe that.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[TheMaulClaw]

40 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

I'm trying to grasp what you're arguing here.

Do you think every coach should be kept around until he gets a good QB ... and then get evaluated? Does this mean that QB play directly ties to the record a coach will have? If so, does that mean the QB is the real reason a team has success and a coach is just some guy? If so, why even have coaches?

Coaches have to be able to do well with good and bad QBs. He did not do well in AZ and he was average at best here. If you think that deserves him sticking around, ok. That's your take. Most others here do not share that philosophy though.

Also curious as to how long you would've given Rhule if you were Tepper. His QBs were nothing to write home about.

It's just curious to me that we make quarterback excuses for the guy we hire but don't give the guy we let go of the same benefit of the doubt.

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

It's just curious to me that we make quarterback excuses for the guy we hire but don't give the guy we let go of the same benefit of the doubt.

Unless you're employing that dumb "only compare last year" argument, Reich doesn't need excuses. He's a winning coach.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[TheMaulClaw]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Unless you're employing the dumb "only compare last year" argument, Reich doesn't need excuses. He's a winning coach.

I don't dislike Reich. I don't think it's a bad hire. I support Reich...but just because I don't think he is a bad coach or a bad hire doesn't mean I don't think Wilks was handled well and obviously I am right. It did create a PR nightmare.

Edited January 28, 2023 by TheMaulClaw

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 hour ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I agree with that about Reich. I like Frank Reich.  I even watched his Northview sermon last night.  This isn't about Reich.  Wilks deserved a legitimate look and he didn't get one, but the Panthers pretended they did, that's all the problem is.

I am in total disagreement with you.  Wilks got a second interview along with Reich and Moore.  I think Tepper wanted to hear who and how he was going to right the ship.  Reich had a better plan. Granted the chips were stacked against him because Tepper, who made it very clear, wanted an offensive minded coach.   It's been noted that Reich came in with a plan and names he had already spoken to about being on his staff before the interview.  

To say it wasn't legitimate because he didn't get the job is very weak.  

His daughter being hired in the marketing department is purely coincidental.  It was very clear that his family has roots here, Her father was a football player and coach would make her want to apply for a job with a football team.  To make the assumption that Reich was the man and he insisted Carolina hire his daughter or he would not come is really reaching. 

People look for anything to throw the race card at.  It's a sad time in our lives.  We've regressed 60 years. 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I don't dislike Reich. I don't think it's a bad hire. I support Reich...but just because I don't think he is a bad coach or a bad hire doesn't mean I don't think Wilks was handled well and obviously I am right. It did create a PR nightmare.

These days, it's very easy to have a PR nightmare without having done anything wrong.

Numerous people in various walks of life can tell you that.

[TheMaulClaw]

9 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I am in total disagreement with you.  Wilks got a second interview along with Reich and Moore.  I think Tepper wanted to hear who and how he was going to right the ship.  Reich had a better plan. Granted the chips were stacked against him because Tepper, who made it very clear, wanted an offensive minded coach.   It's been noted that Reich came in with a plan and names he had already spoken to about being on his staff before the interview.  

To say it wasn't legitimate because he didn't get the job is very weak.  

His daughter being hired in the marketing department is purely coincidental.  It was very clear that his family has roots here, Her father was a football player and coach would make her want to apply for a job with a football team.  To make the assumption that Reich was the man and he insisted Carolina hire his daughter or he would not come is really reaching. 

People look for anything to throw the race card at.  It's a sad time in our lives.  We've regressed 60 years. 

I appreciate your understanding. Not in one post have I said anything about this being motivated by racism. I will push back though. I don't think Reich's daughter was purely coincidental and most likely it was in the very least a mechanism used to lure Reich.

Edited January 28, 2023 by TheMaulClaw

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I appreciate your understanding. Not in one post have I said anything about this being motivated by racist. I will push back though. I don't think Reich's daughter was purely coincidental and most likely it was in the very least a mechanism used to lure Reich.

The hire of Reich's daughter was 100% coincidental.

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Not in one post have I said anything about this being motivated by racist.

Fair enough and sorry about including that.

I see your point on his daughter but with all the other ties he has to the area do you really believe that his daughter getting a job with Carolina was a deal maker.  I think it's coincidental. 

[TheMaulClaw]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

These days, it's very easy to have a PR nightmare without having done anything wrong.

Numerous people in various walks of life can tell you that.

Yeah sometimes it is that way..and sometimes it's warranted.  There is enough circumstantial evidence in this case to take a look. I hope that the Panthers have just a truly terrible PR department...but it seems to me that there was a whole lot of misinformation leaked to the media about how much of a viable candidate Wilks truly was.  I hope it's just bad optics. I hope the Panthers address this on Tuesday to provide clarity.  Though Iw would put money on Tepper dodging. God I wish we would have landed Navarro.

Edited January 28, 2023 by TheMaulClaw

[NAS]

i would have actually lost all respect for Tepper if he just took the easy road and just hired Wilks to appease others for PR purposes.  Time will tell if Reich can turn the franchise around but he is well respected in the league, has proven to be a good offensive mind who can hopefully develop the next franchise QB. Wilks is a good coach but his style represented the past, not the future.