This is starting to get nasty with coach wilks.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I didn't say a team with all pros. I said a team with Andrew Luck. Don't stretch it. When you stretch it...it validates my argument. Would Wilks have been 3-13 in AZ if he had Luck?

I'm pretty sure Mr Fantastic couldn't validate your argument.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

I didn't say a team with all pros. I said a team with Andrew Luck. Don't stretch it. When you stretch it...it validates my argument. Would Wilks have been 3-13 in AZ if he had Luck?

Objection. Speculative your honor. 

Sustained.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Wilks coached solid performances from Sam Darnold. So what.

You now want to give Steve Wilks credit for coaching a quarterback?

Dude, this whole discussion is just getting stupider.

Please tell me you're trolling because if not...yikes

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mr. Scot

[Kentucky Panther]

11 minutes ago, Jon Snow said:

All you have to do is put a blindfold on after you read the job description and compare the candidates resume. 

You take out anything not related to the job description, including name, race, religion, gender, sexual orientation, nationality, age and anything else not related to the job description. Just give them a number.

Do that and tell which number you come up with. Then tell me the name of the candidate. I'll wait.

Bottom line. It’s scary that so many people acting outraged can’t see the simple facts of the situation. 

[Navy_football]

Wilks is a good coach. His personnel changes led to a revamped run game. Rhule wasn't able to revive the run game during his entire tenure in Carolina with the same available personnel sitting on the bench. However the offense became one dimensionable. Unable to overcome a defensive gameplan that could effectively shut down the run. Perhaps he had a plan to address those deficiencies, but it was always gonna be theoretical only. Reich is the better choice if the plan is to develop an offense and a QB. 

And not gonna lie. The way the team lost to the Bucs was in an area directly in Wilks' supposed specialty - defensive secondary. In a game that would have put the team in the playoffs, that was not a good look. Not to mention the conservative approach on 4th downs. 

[TheMaulClaw]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm pretty sure Mr Fantastic couldn't validate your argument.

Mr Scot.  I have the utmost respect for you. Truly. But why dodge the question?

Would Wilks have been 3-13 with Andrew Luck as QB?

You and I both know the answer to this.  You love football to much to not know the truth here. Also why Wilks isn't a QB coach, him implementing a more focused rushing attack led to Sam playing his best football.

[TheMaulClaw]

Just now, Navy_football said:

Wilks is a good coach. His personnel changes led to a revamped run game. Rhule wasn't able to revive the run game during his entire tenure in Carolina with the same available personnel sitting on the bench. However the offense became one dimensionable. Unable to overcome a defensive gameplan that could effectively shut down the run. Perhaps he had a plan to address those deficiencies, but it was always gonna be theoretical only. Reich is the better choice if the plan is to develop an offense and a QB. 

And not gonna lie. The way the team lost to the Bucs was in an area directly in Wilks' supposed specialty - defensive secondary. In a game that would have put the team in the playoffs, that was not a good look. Not to mention the conservative approach on 4th downs. 

It became one dimensional because the team traded it's best player and we had no one opposite of Moore.  Wilks made the right decision based upon personnel.  There was no way to run a multiple offense because we had zero tight ends and 1.5 decent receivers.  

We even saw TMJ start to ball better then he ever did with Rhule.  

Wilks did such a good job that the Panthers brass thinks it's ready to truly compete again. Without Wilks the perception is we are rebuilding again.

 

[Jon Snow]

Just now, Kentucky Panther said:

Bottom line. It’s scary that so many people acting outraged can’t see the simple facts of the situation. 

It's because they won't take the time to think for themselves. They would rather have someone else do the thinking and tell them how to feel. It's called influencer syndrome. Well this person I trust with anything is outraged so I will be too. Never taking the time to see if it is actually true or just bullshit spewing idiots trying to get viewers. It's really sad how gullible most people are.

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, TheMaulClaw said:

Mr Scot.  I have the utmost respect for you. Truly. But why dodge the question?

Would Wilks have been 3-13 with Andrew Luck as QB?

You and I both know the answer to this.  You love football to much to not know the truth here. Also why Wilks isn't a QB coach, him implementing a more focused rushing attack led to Sam playing his best football.

Actually, his limiting Darnold to passing as little as possible is what made the offense at least somewhat workable.

As far as what he could have done with Andrew Luck, what did the offensive line look like? Who did he have at the skill positions? Did he have a defense that could keep the other team from scoring? What kind of scheme did they run? And what about the special teams?

The notion that if you just change the quarterback, everything else changes too is unrealistic. You couldn't just put Tom Brady on last year's Texans roster and automatically assume they make the playoffs.

I'd add if you want to get into Wilks actual area of expertise, then you'd need to try and defend why he handled coverage of Mike Evans the way he did. 

[Navy_football]

2 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

It became one dimensional because the team traded it's best player and we had no one opposite of Moore.  Wilks made the right decision based upon personnel.  There was no way to run a multiple offense because we had zero tight ends and 1.5 decent receivers.  

We even saw TMJ start to ball better then he ever did with Rhule.  

Wilks did such a good job that the Panthers brass thinks it's ready to truly compete again. Without Wilks the perception is we are rebuilding again.

 

Yes! Wilks is a good coach. I agree. But which coach do you have more confidence in training a young QB and installing a new offense - including game time adjustments?

And the defense lost to Tampa. More specifically, the defensive secondary. No adjustments were made to stop Brady from throwing easy lobs to Evans when every one in the stadium knew the corners couldn't cover him. 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

19 minutes ago, TheMaulClaw said:

That's true. I'm not prosecuting a trial here. I am just asking you personally if you think Wilks would have had a better record if he had Andrew Luck his first year in AZ? Conversely do you think Reich would have the same record had he been stuck with Rosen?

I'm trying to grasp what you're arguing here.

Do you think every coach should be kept around until he gets a good QB ... and then get evaluated? Does this mean that QB play directly ties to the record a coach will have? If so, does that mean the QB is the real reason a team has success and a coach is just some guy? If so, why even have coaches?

Coaches have to be able to do well with good and bad QBs. He did not do well in AZ and he was average at best here. If you think that deserves him sticking around, ok. That's your take. Most others here do not share that philosophy though.

Also curious as to how long you would've given Rhule if you were Tepper. His QBs were nothing to write home about.

[bythenbrs]

1 hour ago, WUnderhill said:

Saying it was a fake interview process is just pure speculation based on absolutely nothing but feelings. That being said, I could see how if they weren’t seriously considering him, they might have felt they needed to make it look like they were because of the exact nonsense that we’re seeing right now.

The NFL created the Rooney rule.  The Panthers followed the Rooney Rule to the letter.  If Wilks felt strung along, he can blame the NFL for creating the very rule that the Panthers were obligated to follow.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Considering the hand he was dealt, Wilks did surprisingly well as the Panthers interim head coach. 

Regardless, if a panel of experts were asked to compare the coaching accomplishments of Wilks and Reich (without their names being associated with that work) it would be hard not to come to the conclusion that Reich's body of work is more extensive and successful.  Add to that, today's NFL is more than ever a QB driven league and success as a head coach is now biased towards those with an offensive background. 

Conclusion:  Between Wilks and Reich, it would have been hard to justify any other decision than the one the Panthers ending up making.  

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, NanuqoftheNorth said:

Considering the hand he was dealt, Wilks did surprisingly well as the Panthers interim head coach. 

Regardless, if a panel of experts were asked to compare the coaching accomplishments of Wilks and Reich (without their names being associated with that work) it would be hard not to come to the conclusion that Reich's body of work is more extensive and successful.  Add to that, today's NFL is more than ever a QB driven league and success as a head coach is now biased towards those with an offensive background. 

Conclusion:  Between Wilks and Reich, it would have been hard to justify any other decision than the one the Panthers ending up making.  

I'm a big fan of Steve Wilks because I think he's a great leader and a man of phenomenal character.

I'm also someone who always tries not to let their emotions affect their decision making.

As we wound down the stretch this past season, I increasingly came to the belief that Wilks was not going to get the Panthers job. He certainly made the team better than it had been, but was it a good enough coaching performance to win the permanent job?

My gut said no, and that was even before we knew who any of the other candidates would be.

As you said though, compare Wilks and Reich in a vacuum and it's pretty difficult not to choose Reich.

Edited January 28, 2023 by Mr. Scot