Watching Jalen Hurts sort of hurts.....

[top dawg]

Coaches play a huge part in the success or failure of football players. Moreover, the notion that players should play right away, particularly QBs, can have profound effect upon the suceea or failure of players as well. Time, patience and coaching means a lot in the success or failure for players.

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

57 minutes ago, CamWhoaaCam said:

His OC has the best roster in football.

Eagles have 2 #1 WR a top 10 TE and a top 5 RB and the best Oline in football.

 

Are you sure he's going to be that impactful with this offense and our lack of weapons?

Yes, he was also a big reason why Herbert went from a raw prospect that many people thought would bust to a top 10 QB.

It's time to get on the Shane train

Edited January 22, 2023 by Sean Payton's Vicodin

[methodtoll]

Jalen Hurts is a prime example of why coaching matters because before Sirianni and Steichen came along, Hurts was just thought of a back up QB at most in the NFL. 

Which is why many are too quick to give up on Matt Corral over one preseason. I am not saying he will amount to anything but given the right circumstances (a good offensive minded coach like Steichen) I could his development improving vastly.

[kungfoodude]

3 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

I won’t argue what rhule would have done with him.. bc you are probably right

Yeah, I think history will get more and more unkind to Matt Rhule. Deservedly so.

[SCO96]

1 hour ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

There are many factors contributing to a QB's success or failure at the NFL level. Some, like drive, learning curve, ability to process at the speed needed in the league, are extremely hard to measure, so while QB prospects are put under an intense microscope pre draft, what often gets overlooked is how unmeasurable these things are, and how this contributes to the crapshoot nature of drafting a QB. 

The other thing that I think is overlooked and borderline ignored most of the time, his how big a factor the specific circumstances a young QB finds himself in influence the outcome. The quality of the OL he plays behind, his skill position players, the fit of the scheme to his skillset, the quality of the coaching he receives. Keep in mind all these things matter, and they can vary greatly from team to team.

A common fan perspective is to lament that we could have had so and so player and we didn't draft him. I believe the problem with this idea is the notion that player x's outcome is mostly about him, and that if he were here, the outcome would largely have been the same. I am becoming increasingly of the opinion that environmental factors play a much bigger role in a prospects success or failure at the NFL level than most fans are inclined to consider.

What if we had drafted Hurts?

Maybe he'd have had not nearly as much success if he'd come here.

Great post. I was goimg to post some thoughts on this topic. You're thoughts mirror mine so closely that I don't need to do so now. So, I'll just add to what you said.

Hurts (2nd round) is in a good situation right now and is showing the world what he can do. As you pointed out, he wouldn't be a NFL MVP candidate playing for Matt Rhule and the O-line we had during his first 2 years as head coach. Players need to be put in positions to maximize their talents and help them reach their potential.

Look at Trevor Lawrence (1st round). He didn't look like a generational QB last year. Part of the that was due to being a rookie and having to adapt to the speed of the game. But his struggles last year were largely due to the poor coaching of Urban Meyer. Now he's got two full seasons under his belt; A good HC; and the team is steadily adding pieces for him to flourish. He looks like he's really poised to break out in his 3rd year.

Brock Purdy: (6th round pick). So far he's played lights out. Why? Great coaching staff and arguably the most talented team in the league man per man. He's in a situation where he can thrive. He wouldn't have had type of success in Carolina he played here in 2022 (or any other season under Matt Rhule)

Geno Smith: A won't go too long on this. But he looked like a legit starter in the league in 2022. Once again you have a guy who is playing for a good coach. He had some competent pieces in place prior to the season; and his GM had the best draft class of the year. Geno thriving due to his effort and playing in a good situation/envirionment.

It's great if you can get a super talented/elite prospect like Trevor at the top of the draft. But, if you can't you nab one of those early, teams can find solid starters after the first round if the team is well constructed and is able to put the player in a good situation to start their career. 

[GoobyPls]

He’s improved a ton as a passer, I still don’t think he’s the type of QB that can carry a bad team 

[MVPccaffrey]

But he was drafted with the 53rd pick.  I've been reliably informed by the huddle that the Panthers screwed themselves forever by playing out of pick 3 and all the way up to pick 9.

 

[cookinbrak]

The NFL constantly cheats us every year by not giving us 483 draft picks. Bastards.

[Carolina Cajun]

I wasnt a pound the table kind of guy for hurts, but I said from the beginning that I thought he could be a pretty good QB in the NFL and it was based partly on the fact that he had the physical tools necessary, but even more so that he had the resilience and leadership that you look for in a QB.  In college he was benched in the national championship game, didnt complain, did his job, transferred and finished second in the heisman voting.  He was just a born leader that people want to play for and THATS the kind of quality that when combined with physical tools translates in the NFL.

now, no way on earth would I have guessed he'd be as good as he is, but still thought he'd be a good NFL qb.

[Hogan]

I've been lurking here for awhile but hadn't signed up until now. I'm an original PSL owner so I have been at this for awhile.

My response to this post. It's all about coaching. In my opinion, Hurts has become Hurts because of coaching. Purdy has become Purdy because of coaching. Mahomes, drafted with the TENTH pick in the 2017 draft, has become Mahomes because of coaching. 

It's NOT just having a high draft pick and then using it to draft a QB. It's also having a coach that can develop that QB. Normally, if a defensive coach/DC becomes the head coach, he then has to find a offensive coach/QB coach to develop his young QB. And normally, if that offensive/QB coach is really good, he moves on the be a head coach. And the defensive coach (Wilks/Rivera/Fox is FOREVER looking to find the next QB/OC.

The point: Great offensive minds/QB coaches don't stay assistants long. They become head coaches

 

[YourLastThought]

19 minutes ago, Hogan said:

I've been lurking here for awhile but hadn't signed up until now. I'm an original PSL owner so I have been at this for awhile.

My response to this post. It's all about coaching. In my opinion, Hurts has become Hurts because of coaching. Purdy has become Purdy because of coaching. Mahomes, drafted with the TENTH pick in the 2017 draft, has become Mahomes because of coaching. 

It's NOT just having a high draft pick and then using it to draft a QB. It's also having a coach that can develop that QB. Normally, if a defensive coach/DC becomes the head coach, he then has to find a offensive coach/QB coach to develop his young QB. And normally, if that offensive/QB coach is really good, he moves on the be a head coach. And the defensive coach (Wilks/Rivera/Fox is FOREVER looking to find the next QB/OC.

The point: Great offensive minds/QB coaches don't stay assistants long. They become head coaches

 

Hard to argue with that. Great post.

[CPantherKing]

Realizing the importance of a coaching tree is critical to success. Champion coaches develop champion coaches and champion players. You won't find a SB Champion QB who has left their team to pair with a rookie coach or failed coach and turned them into a championship coach. The coaches that win the SB have all studied under championship HCs and had a part in developing championship QBs.

Jimmy Johnson and Bill Parcells are the only 2 coaches to blaze their own path without a championship mentor. The other 33 have all come from championship coaches. 34 if Taylor, Shanahan, or Sirianni win the SB. Sirianni is the least studied under championship mentors. He comes from Philbin (SB champ OC) and McVay (SB champ HC).

As for QBs, they get developed by these coaching lines and the legends of Montana, Unitas, Brady, Mannings, Bradshaw, Elway, Favre, and now Mahomes are forged. If these same QBs were with the likes of Matt Rhule, Urban Meyer, Dom Capers, Nathaniel Hackett, Matt Eberflus or Kliff Kingsbury there would be little to no development and no legend.

Good coaches utilize their players better than other coaches to take a team to the playoffs. Good QBs are coachable, protect the ball, and produce clutch GWD in big games/playoffs. It does not matter where the QB is drafted. A good coach just needs a QB with average intellect and athletic instincts in the pocket.

[SOJA]

On 1/22/2023 at 6:31 AM, BIGH2001 said:

He would have looked like Bridgewater under the previous regime. The entire panthers history from 2019-now should be erased and never spoken of again. Reminds me of the stretch from 97-01 where we floundered along with no real direction.

agreed. Hurts would not have succeeded here. and I'm a Hurts fan. We've just been so god damn awful

[axl-69 2.0]