I Think it Should Be Wilks...

[Bear Hands]

1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Because McDermott was actually a good D-coordinator.

Wilks was average at best. There was a massive step down in defensive quality after McDermott left. 

I mentioned elsewhere, but it can't be lost that Wilks only has 2 entire years to his name as a coordinator in the NFL and 14 years overall experience.  The fact is he was Ron Rivera's assistant since 2006 until the AZ job came along in 2017.  

The AZ HC season was probably a huge season of growth for him professionally even though the team and franchise was awful there, but overall, you don't really see much to go off.  And even if it was crappy situation and they didn't give him time, that team nosedived and hard.  Can't ignore that.  

As coordinator, one year was riding McD's defense with Luke, and the other was under Freddie Kitchens in Cleveland (They were ranked around 22nd that year).  

As HC, his teams have lost by double digits 12 times in 29 total games.  

Nahhh

 

 

[TLGPanthersFan]

Just now, frankw said:

If we're crapping on Ben Johnson for the loss against us then let's keep it consistent and talk about that Bengals blowout 35 points in a half. And let's also talk about how we let the Bucs keep destroying our secondary without making any attempts at adjustments ie classic Ron Rivera.

I was curious what the Arizona media was saying about Wilks during his tenure and surprise, surprise it is the same stuff we were complaining about him, Rivera and Fox. 
Too conservative, no adjustments, bad clock management. 
 

[SetfreexX]

3 minutes ago, Ricky Spanish said:

I'm still not following how this proves wilks should be the HC though?

We had over 10 minutes more TOP due to the fact we were running at will, and they still managed to score above the league average of points after they completely abandoned the run. We didn't handle it so much as we beat the breaks off their defense by breaking a franchise record in rushing.

This is on the list of things why, which are in the OP. 

Again, I isolated this game as we limited their offense, and had a plan on offense to take advantage of their defense. IE: out-planning / out-coaching

Same way we handled SEA, we know Darnold and PJ are liabilities at QB, yet we found ways to win with a GLARING weakness at QB. 

It's cool most folks here want an offensive minded coach, folks are also straight up dismissing the job he did this year, with this mess. 

Is your Ben Johnson's of the world going .500 with this??? That's a legit question to consider. 

Damian Williams was an established HB in GB, and set a record this year IRL, our gameplan limited that

Aman-Ra was one of the best receivers as far as targets / production we limited that, and if not for the early bomb to Chark, we likely hold them under 20 points for the game. 

You can't highlight the failures and dismiss the success at the same time acting like what he did was not impressive, and likely deserving of more. 

[SetfreexX]

6 minutes ago, TLGPanthersFan said:

FIFY. Don’t think I haven’t forgot how many close losses because of Rivera conservative playcalling. 
 

A close loss isn't a loss...FIFY

And you can't take away or diminish the appearances just because you are not a fan of the coaching style, that is simply ignorant. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

8 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

I've said a few times the biggest issue that we face isn't HC post Rhule, it's finding a quarterback. Running the ball only gets you so far, but the point of that game was to show that we handled the offense of a guy many thought could be our next HC until he decided to stay with DET.

Our biggest problem when we had Cam wasn't the QB, it was the coach. Having a good QB doesn't mean squat if you don't have a coach and OC that know how to use them. You need creativity and innovation, especially in the offense driven NFL now. That's not most defensive coaches, Wilks included. He showed us he was who he was, ground and pound. Conservative football. Beat the other guy doing what we do. Except when that doesn't work, there's nothing else to fall back on. It's time to get in the flow with the way the NFL is going. Rules are stacked against the defense. It's time to change and head away from what hasn't worked. 

[SetfreexX]

5 minutes ago, frankw said:

If we're crapping on Ben Johnson for the loss against us then let's keep it consistent and talk about that Bengals blowout 35 points in a half. And let's also talk about how we let the Bucs keep destroying our secondary without making any attempts at adjustments ie classic Ron Rivera.

Pretty sure PJ had early turnovers that sparked the snowball, and if you watch the pressers, two of those three TD's was man coverage with deep safety help for each half of the field. 

So a better question would be were was the help, Keith like when Donte' fell just got beat by a better received. 

Wilks re-capped it in the presser after the game. If you only watched the game I could see how you might feel that way. 

Back to CIN let's not act like they are not a good team, and team many aspire to be. We got whooped, but the offense as we know being limited didn't show up, and the turnovers early killed us which meant running was no longer an option.

[SetfreexX]

12 minutes ago, Bear Hands said:

I mentioned elsewhere, but it can't be lost that Wilks only has 2 entire years to his name as a coordinator in the NFL and 14 years overall experience.  The fact is he was Ron Rivera's assistant since 2006 until the AZ job came along in 2017.  

The AZ HC season was probably a huge season of growth for him professionally even though the team and franchise was awful there, but overall, you don't really see much to go off.  And even if it was crappy situation and they didn't give him time, that team nosedived and hard.  Can't ignore that.  

As coordinator, one year was riding McD's defense with Luke, and the other was under Freddie Kitchens in Cleveland (They were ranked around 22nd that year).  

As HC, his teams have lost by double digits 12 times in 29 total games.  

Nahhh

 

 

McD's last year here 2016

26th in PPG allowed

21th in YPG allowed

Steve Wilks 2017

11th in PPG allowed

7th in YPG allowed

_______________________________________________________

Tell me more about riding coattails with the same personnel as you mentioned. 

As far as those double digit losses you throw out with no context -- only 3 were as the interim Panthers coach. (LAR (1st game as interim), CIN, BAL (10 points)

The other three losses were by - 3, 8, and 6 points, that's a point differential of 5.67

So again, as stated, he didn't select his staff / QB in ARI and we're putting the results on his head 100%...got it.

You're going to have to do better than throwing out stats from the ARI time as 1) it was 5 years ago, and 2) his lack of impact is limited due to and I say this again, not his staff / not his QB.

Edited January 18, 2023 by SetfreexX

[TLGPanthersFan]

Just now, SetfreexX said:

A close loss isn't a loss...FIFY

And you can't take away or diminish the appearances just because you are not a fan of the coaching style, that is simply ignorant. 

Super Bowl 50 is because Rivera wouldn’t adjust. Broncos players said as much after the game. Rivera without Cam is a mediocre coach who would have been fired in 2013 if not 2012.
Wilks doesn’t have a Cam to carry his ass. To make up for his boneheaded coaching decisions, which we saw this season. 
Wilks is a mediocre coach. Who will, at best, make then Panthers the Titans of the NFL. 
Meaning, yeah, we may make the playoffs but we will never make the Super Bowl. 
As a fan I want better then mediocrity and the chance to be beaten by a better more rounded team, which is what happens to the Titans. 
It will be hilarious if we do hire Wilks and he sucks. I will be laughing my ass off. 

 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Let's look at it this way ...

1. Former player in college and the AFL

2. HC of Savannah State (5-6)

3. Left coaching college to join the Bears staff (fired)

4. Joined Rivera in SD (they were in Chi together) as DB coach

5. Joined Rivera in Carolina

6. HAD CAM NEWTON

7. Left Carolina to be the head coach of Arizona (fired)

8. Joined the Browns staff

9. Left the NFL to coach at Missouri

10. Left college again to come back and coach with Rhule (went 6-6 as IHC)

[Ricky Spanish]

4 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

This is on the list of things why, which are in the OP. 

Again, I isolated this game as we limited their offense, and had a plan on offense to take advantage of their defense. IE: out-planning / out-coaching

Same way we handled SEA, we know Darnold and PJ are liabilities at QB, yet we found ways to win with a GLARING weakness at QB. 

It's cool most folks here want an offensive minded coach, folks are also straight up dismissing the job he did this year, with this mess. 

Is your Ben Johnson's of the world going .500 with this??? That's a legit question to consider. 

Damian Williams was an established HB in GB, and set a record this year IRL, our gameplan limited that

Aman-Ra was one of the best receivers as far as targets / production we limited that, and if not for the early bomb to Chark, we likely hold them under 20 points for the game. 

You can't highlight the failures and dismiss the success at the same time acting like what he did was not impressive, and likely deserving of more. 

We were a one trick pony though, that's my argument. Literally everyone knew we were going to run the ball. We beat teams who were bad against the run. Seattle and Detroit were #3 and #4 worst in the league against the run. Cincy and Baltimore, both top 5. Pitt, top 10. TB, mediocre at run defense so we split. NO, bottom 10 run defense, we swept them.

There was no exceptional game plan after he took over, it was just pound that rock. We should have won the games we won because we were built to win against those teams. Any team that was remotely good against the run and we had no counterpunch. 

Granted, he still identified that was what our identity should be based on our personnel, something Rhule was oblivious to, but that comes back to Wilks actually being competent. 

[NJPanthers12]

1 hour ago, SetfreexX said:

There's a lot of buzz out there and rightfully so, but I think we should hire Steve Wilks.

Think about where we were in as recent as 2018 -- 6-2, on the verge of a playoff caliber season, and then the hit happens. 

Fast forward to 2019 -- Lisfranc ends Cam's season in by Week 3 I believe it was (The TNF game where CMC came up short to win)

2020 - 2022 - The biggest poo show I have EVER witnessed at the professional level (outside Meyer), Rhule comes in preaching a college style rebuild, strips any and all ties to what makes the Panthers the Panthers in the first place, and inserts his generic ''insert team name here'' OOU crap (if you don't know about the OOU stuff look it up)

• In this time we cut Cam, and replace him with Teddy B for ''MORE MONEY'' only to trade him a season later for a 6th or 7th while eating dead cap, we pass on QBs in the 2021 draft because we traded for Sam and gave up a haul to get for a QB who was a bust at that point, and before the 2021 draft ends, we've guaranteed his 5th year at short of 19M. Sam and the OL are a complete poo show in 2021, in 2022 we trade for another QB his current team wanted to replace / upgrade from Baker Mayfield, who somehow even with the new OL, CMC, and DJ was worse than Sam, and ends up benched in favor of PJ Walker. 
• In this time Rhule won 11 games - 5-11 / 5-12 / 1-4 - two and a half years into his ''7'' year plan. 

_______________________________________________________

I say all of that to set up the following, anyone with a set of eyes knows that Wilks was set up to fail once management decided not to let him select his QB - ''see Josh Rosen since his time in ARI''. People may forget how old that team had become after the Bruce Arians run there with Carson Palmer. Wilks finishes 3-13 and is replaced by an inexperienced coach, who was just FIRED in college, and is given the chance to draft ''his guy'' Kyler number one overall only to be fired after the 3rd year.

Wilks helped the Panthers become a serious team again going 6-6 over 12 games winning more games in a shortened stint than Rhule ever did in any full season, and did so with even less than Rhule had at his disposal at any point in time. CMC was injured under Rhule...ok he was traded for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Robbie who was a thousand yard receiver became a JAG with Sam, and Baker, he was eventually traded away for a 5th from ARI if memory serves. Chuba who many of us likely loathed after the bad hands / fumbles in his rookie year, all of a sudden became a legit contributor, and D'Onta established himself as one of the better backs in the league run production wise, and was less than 100 yards away from a 1,000 yard season had it not been for a weak ejection in Week 18. Then the biggest Rhule snubs TMJ, and Bozeman, TMJ showed you why he was a 2nd round pick flashing the 50/50 ball ability, along side his speed / size / athleticism. Bozeman came in and immediately anchored the OL a unit that was as sound as any for the majority of the year even with a rookie, and two new additions in free agency and Brady C in year two. 

''But he's too conservative'' let's be honest, looking at what we had on offense / who was calling the plays, alongside the fact that our defense while solid / good is limited no 2nd pass rusher, question marks in the secondary, speed at the second level, etc. we were not constructed to be overly aggressive, for the most part we were aggressive when needed for the most part, and maybe we left some plays out there we'd like to have back in hindsight -- news flash, all coaches / every team feels this way. 

Considering Wilks took a 1-4 team, and got them to 7-10 with all we had surrounding us is about as impressive as it gets, and what's more...the players respect him / his approach. He helped set franchise....let me repeat that FRANCHISE records offensively even though he has a defensive background. To me if you are Tepper, let's see where this goes under his leadership, let him hire ''his'' staff. Many of you may not have known this but see this quote from Rivera:

“The hard part for him there, he was the last guy hired,” Rivera said for Sports Illustrated. “So all the guys that were on his coaching list, they were already locked in. He had to hire guys that he really didn’t want to have to hire. He had to keep guys he didn’t want to keep.”

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/04/ron-rivera-steve-wilks-coaching-staff-with-cardinals-was-part-of-problem-in-2018/#:~:text=Offensive coordinator Mike McCoy was,Foote%2C Steve Heiden and others.

That is huge, I don't agree with giving coaches ''full'' roster control (what is rumored for Payton), but they need to be able to hire their staff, these are the guys they work with week in and week out, you need that group of men to be on the same page if you want to see results.

I think we have the right guy, we just need to give him the opportunity, 3 year deal, league average salary, and let's keep Panther's football moving forward -- #KEEPPOUNDING

Stopped reading at the title of the post. That’s a lot of words to just say I have no idea what I’m taking about. 

[Tr3ach]

20 minutes ago, frankw said:

If we're crapping on Ben Johnson for the loss against us then let's keep it consistent and talk about that Bengals blowout 35 points in a half. And let's also talk about how we let the Bucs keep destroying our secondary without making any attempts at adjustments ie classic Ron Rivera.

Not just destroy our secondary.  Literally ran the same play for 3 bomb touchdowns and we still never adjusted.

[SetfreexX]

15 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Our biggest problem when we had Cam wasn't the QB, it was the coach. Having a good QB doesn't mean squat if you don't have a coach and OC that know how to use them. You need creativity and innovation, especially in the offense driven NFL now. That's not most defensive coaches, Wilks included. He showed us he was who he was, ground and pound. Conservative football. Beat the other guy doing what we do. Except when that doesn't work, there's nothing else to fall back on. It's time to get in the flow with the way the NFL is going. Rules are stacked against the defense. It's time to change and head away from what hasn't worked. 

So on this roster with McAdoo as the inherited OC, and Baker, Sam, and PJ...you want to just air it out all over the yard just because that's what teams do now...

Teams that can do that generally have the personnel to do that, and that starts with a QB...

So who we ushering in this new age with that was on the 2022 Panthers roster...

[Brooklyn 3.0]

20 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

I know people are shitting on your take, but Wilks did a good job, and he showed he is better than what he’s given credit for in this sub. Not his staff, not his roster. And he has this team in playoff talks until week 17.

 

He’s not a sexy new toy offensive wunderkind, so he gets poo on more than he should be. 
 

 

You know who else had their team in Playoffs talk?

Arthur Smith, Dennis Allen, and Todd Bowles.