I Think it Should Be Wilks...

[SetfreexX]

I think many forget he's suing the NFL...

I'd wager that has more to due with outside lack of interest, Brian Flores ring a bell for any of you...

Not saying we need to agree, but it's more than his resume' 

And the year (2017) he was the DC was the year we had the worst secondary personnel I may have ever witnessed outside of Bradberry, who remembers Daryl Worley, Kevon Seymour, old Munnerlyn Ladarius Gunter...like let's keep it a buck, that 2017 defense outside of Luke, and an aging TD58 was trash. 

Kawaan Short was two years removed from his record setting year, Charles Johnson was in his LAST year with the team, and Addison...that defense was trash every day of the weak, and 2x on Sundays. 

And even with all of that to consider...we were 11th in points allowed, and 7th in yards allowed -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2017.htm

The frustration you are likely recalling was tied to the BEGININNING of that season as he was running a lot of man with pressure and guys like Worley was getting chewed up, when we went back to the ''keep it in front'' style based on personnel we ended up with one of the best defenses in the league which is WHY he got the HC opportunity in the first place. 

[SetfreexX]

7 minutes ago, CRA said:

or Rivera if Fox is busy? 

Each of those coaches got us to a Superbowl...

Not a strong argument, hell even with no QB in WAS Rivera made the playoffs, but you want to turn it over to an even less experienced person that Matt Rhule that just happens to have a year under their belt as an OC?

I understand the trend, I also understand that trend has failed in several places that tried to follow suit. There's only so many McVays / Shanahans. 

Ben Johnson 1st year OC, Ken Dorsey 1st year OC, etc. 

I want more offensive focus, but I also want a legit HC, Wilks showed you what he could do with basically nothing. The time in ARI in my opinion is a wash all things considered which I outlined above. 

[Ricky Spanish]

8 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

I think many forget he's suing the NFL...

I'd wager that has more to due with outside lack of interest, Brian Flores ring a bell for any of you...

Not saying we need to agree, but it's more than his resume' 

And the year (2017) he was the DC was the year we had the worst secondary personnel I may have ever witnessed outside of Bradberry, who remembers Daryl Worley, Kevon Seymour, old Munnerlyn Ladarius Gunter...like let's keep it a buck, that 2017 defense outside of Luke, and an aging TD58 was trash. 

Kawaan Short was two years removed from his record setting year, Charles Johnson was in his LAST year with the team, and Addison...that defense was trash every day of the weak, and 2x on Sundays. 

And even with all of that to consider...we were 11th in points allowed, and 7th in yards allowed -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2017.htm

The frustration you are likely recalling was tied to the BEGININNING of that season as he was running a lot of man with pressure and guys like Worley was getting chewed up, when we went back to the ''keep it in front'' style based on personnel we ended up with one of the best defenses in the league which is WHY he got the HC opportunity in the first place. 

Flores has actually gotten interviews this coaching cycle though.

Look, I love what Wilks did by coming in and stabilizing the ship. He did an admirable job with what he was handed. The team we assembled this past offseason was good enough to make the playoffs. The coaching staff we had at the beginning of the year was not. Matt Rhule sucked as a coach so our team sucked. All we needed was someone competent to lead the team, and lo and behold, we are contending for a playoff spot once Wilks took over. 

Having said that, he's just that - Competent. I don't think can out plan/out maneuver his opponents. You will know what you are up against week in and week out with him at the helm. He's Rivera 2.0 in that regard: Great guy. Leader of men. Stagnant and old-school. Inconsistent due to inflexibility. 

Our team was so bad the past few years under Rhule, that reverting back to the old Rivera Ways seems like a huge upgrade, and it unfortunately is, but we've seen that song and dance before and we know how it ends. There's a reason we moved on from Rivera in the first place. Just because we didn't get his replacement right doesn't mean we need to revert right back to the status quo.

We should aim higher. 

 

[UNCrules2187]

8 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

I think many forget he's suing the NFL...

I'd wager that has more to due with outside lack of interest, Brian Flores ring a bell for any of you...

Not saying we need to agree, but it's more than his resume' 

And the year (2017) he was the DC was the year we had the worst secondary personnel I may have ever witnessed outside of Bradberry, who remembers Daryl Worley, Kevon Seymour, old Munnerlyn Ladarius Gunter...like let's keep it a buck, that 2017 defense outside of Luke, and an aging TD58 was trash. 

Kawaan Short was two years removed from his record setting year, Charles Johnson was in his LAST year with the team, and Addison...that defense was trash every day of the weak, and 2x on Sundays. 

And even with all of that to consider...we were 11th in points allowed, and 7th in yards allowed -- https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/car/2017.htm

The frustration you are likely recalling was tied to the BEGININNING of that season as he was running a lot of man with pressure and guys like Worley was getting chewed up, when we went back to the ''keep it in front'' style based on personnel we ended up with one of the best defenses in the league which is WHY he got the HC opportunity in the first place. 

Brian Flores got DC interviews and is interviewing in Arizona for the HC job.

As for retaining Wilks, no thanks.

 

[frankw]

I'm just not interested in seeing another defensive head coach rerun. Arguing Rivera got us to a Super Bowl actually has the opposite effect for the argument in favor of Wilks. Remove the threat of a generational talent in Cam Newton bullying defenses for years and Rivera would have been fired in his second or third season. There's no Cam Newton to save Steve Wilks. We need a new philosophy and someone who can and will actually develop a quarterback. All good things and well wishes to Wilks but I simply do not see him as the coach for that.

[Brooklyn 3.0]

BuT hE DoeS tHingS tHe PaNTheRS wAY!

[Khyber53]

50 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

There's a lot of buzz out there and rightfully so, but I think we should hire Steve Wilks.

Think about where we were in as recent as 2018 -- 6-2, on the verge of a playoff caliber season, and then the hit happens. 

Fast forward to 2019 -- Lisfranc ends Cam's season in by Week 3 I believe it was (The TNF game where CMC came up short to win)

2020 - 2022 - The biggest poo show I have EVER witnessed at the professional level (outside Meyer), Rhule comes in preaching a college style rebuild, strips any and all ties to what makes the Panthers the Panthers in the first place, and inserts his generic ''insert team name here'' OOU crap (if you don't know about the OOU stuff look it up)

• In this time we cut Cam, and replace him with Teddy B for ''MORE MONEY'' only to trade him a season later for a 6th or 7th while eating dead cap, we pass on QBs in the 2021 draft because we traded for Sam and gave up a haul to get for a QB who was a bust at that point, and before the 2021 draft ends, we've guaranteed his 5th year at short of 19M. Sam and the OL are a complete poo show in 2021, in 2022 we trade for another QB his current team wanted to replace / upgrade from Baker Mayfield, who somehow even with the new OL, CMC, and DJ was worse than Sam, and ends up benched in favor of PJ Walker. 
• In this time Rhule won 11 games - 5-11 / 5-12 / 1-4 - two and a half years into his ''7'' year plan. 

_______________________________________________________

I say all of that to set up the following, anyone with a set of eyes knows that Wilks was set up to fail once management decided not to let him select his QB - ''see Josh Rosen since his time in ARI''. People may forget how old that team had become after the Bruce Arians run there with Carson Palmer. Wilks finishes 3-13 and is replaced by an inexperienced coach, who was just FIRED in college, and is given the chance to draft ''his guy'' Kyler number one overall only to be fired after the 3rd year.

Wilks helped the Panthers become a serious team again going 6-6 over 12 games winning more games in a shortened stint than Rhule ever did in any full season, and did so with even less than Rhule had at his disposal at any point in time. CMC was injured under Rhule...ok he was traded for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Robbie who was a thousand yard receiver became a JAG with Sam, and Baker, he was eventually traded away for a 5th from ARI if memory serves. Chuba who many of us likely loathed after the bad hands / fumbles in his rookie year, all of a sudden became a legit contributor, and D'Onta established himself as one of the better backs in the league run production wise, and was less than 100 yards away from a 1,000 yard season had it not been for a weak ejection in Week 18. Then the biggest Rhule snubs TMJ, and Bozeman, TMJ showed you why he was a 2nd round pick flashing the 50/50 ball ability, along side his speed / size / athleticism. Bozeman came in and immediately anchored the OL a unit that was as sound as any for the majority of the year even with a rookie, and two new additions in free agency and Brady C in year two. 

''But he's too conservative'' let's be honest, looking at what we had on offense / who was calling the plays, alongside the fact that our defense while solid / good is limited no 2nd pass rusher, question marks in the secondary, speed at the second level, etc. we were not constructed to be overly aggressive, for the most part we were aggressive when needed for the most part, and maybe we left some plays out there we'd like to have back in hindsight -- news flash, all coaches / every team feels this way. 

Considering Wilks took a 1-4 team, and got them to 7-10 with all we had surrounding us is about as impressive as it gets, and what's more...the players respect him / his approach. He helped set franchise....let me repeat that FRANCHISE records offensively even though he has a defensive background. To me if you are Tepper, let's see where this goes under his leadership, let him hire ''his'' staff. Many of you may not have known this but see this quote from Rivera:

“The hard part for him there, he was the last guy hired,” Rivera said for Sports Illustrated. “So all the guys that were on his coaching list, they were already locked in. He had to hire guys that he really didn’t want to have to hire. He had to keep guys he didn’t want to keep.”

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/04/ron-rivera-steve-wilks-coaching-staff-with-cardinals-was-part-of-problem-in-2018/#:~:text=Offensive coordinator Mike McCoy was,Foote%2C Steve Heiden and others.

That is huge, I don't agree with giving coaches ''full'' roster control (what is rumored for Payton), but they need to be able to hire their staff, these are the guys they work with week in and week out, you need that group of men to be on the same page if you want to see results.

I think we have the right guy, we just need to give him the opportunity, 3 year deal, league average salary, and let's keep Panther's football moving forward -- #KEEPPOUNDING

You are 100% right! I agree wholeheartedly!

[SetfreexX]

1 minute ago, Ricky Spanish said:

Flores has actually gotten interviews this coaching cycle though.

Look, I love what Wilks did by coming in and stabilizing the ship. He did an admirable job with what he was handed. The team we assembled this past offseason was good enough to make the playoffs. The coaching staff we had at the beginning of the year was not. Matt Rhule sucked as a coach so our team sucked. All we needed was someone competent to lead the team, and lo and behold, we are contending for a playoff spot once Wilks took over. 

Having said that, he's just that - Competent. I don't think can out plan/out maneuver his opponents. You will know what you are up against week in and week out with him at the helm. He's Rivera 2.0 in that regard: Great guy. Leader of men. Stagnant and old-school. Inconsistent due to inflexibility. 

Our team was so bad the past few years under Rhule, that reverting back to the old Rivera Ways seems like a huge upgrade, and it unfortunately is, but we've seen that song and dance before and we know how it ends. There's a reason we moved on from Rivera in the first place. Just because we didn't get his replacement right doesn't mean we need to revert right back to his ways. 

 

Not as a HC, I want to say he garnered some attention as a DC, we are talking about HC options atm. So if you are Wilks and your goal is to be a HC why would you interview for less. 

Flores was added to Pittsburgh roster due to Mike Tomlin creating a job as he was not a coordinator. That was ''minority'' coaches sticking together. 

You expect a one year OC, turned first year HC to ''out plan / out coach'' seasoned NFL veteran coaches?

Look what we did to Ben Johnson's offense...

Held their run game to 2.6 ypc

Kept Amon-Ra under 100 receiving, and outside CJ getting mossed (51 yards) Chark was 3 for 57

_________________________________________________________

Are we talking about that kind of ''out planning / out coaching''? I mention Ben as he was the ''hot'' name. Ya'll forget Rhule was one of if not the ''HOTTEST'' name that cycle with a ''reputation'' for rebuilding programs. 

I'm just saying thinking that a 1st year OC turned HC is the way to the promised land is ''wishful'' thinking at best. And I get it offense has been so inept here, and we see NFL trends etc. but you also can't buy into the ''hype'' too much. 

Which is why I suggested Wilks on a 3yr / avg sal contract. Short enough to move on if needed, or room for an extension if earned inside two years. 

What we need more than anything that ALL of these OCs that people love so much have, is a QUARTERBACK. 

A Pep Hamilton pairing, I'd be open to Scott Turner returning, bringing in a coach from the SF, or LAR staff to be the OC makes sense to me as well. I'm just not sold on the ''inexperienced HC route''. Not after Rhule, and not with all the failure we've seen when teams try to ''find the next''. 

We can talk about the MIA coach, but look at the team he inherited...and what they did with all that cap space (Hill / Armstead / Chubb / etc.)

Taylor and CIN, hit on a number one QB overall, and as time has shown you have about a 50% chance to hit. 

Kingsbury flamed out in ARI, and ended up at odds with ''his guy'' at QB. 

Nathaniel Hackett GB QB guru - 4-11 and fired with Russell Wilson, as bad as a season as they had, we all have seen Russ up close versus us over the years, he's not like what we saw this year. 

There are other examples over the years, if we went the offensive coach route, give me Reich or Caldwell, I want experience first and foremost and they have legit resumes.  

[Cdparr7]

53 minutes ago, SetfreexX said:

There's a lot of buzz out there and rightfully so, but I think we should hire Steve Wilks.

Think about where we were in as recent as 2018 -- 6-2, on the verge of a playoff caliber season, and then the hit happens. 

Fast forward to 2019 -- Lisfranc ends Cam's season in by Week 3 I believe it was (The TNF game where CMC came up short to win)

2020 - 2022 - The biggest poo show I have EVER witnessed at the professional level (outside Meyer), Rhule comes in preaching a college style rebuild, strips any and all ties to what makes the Panthers the Panthers in the first place, and inserts his generic ''insert team name here'' OOU crap (if you don't know about the OOU stuff look it up)

• In this time we cut Cam, and replace him with Teddy B for ''MORE MONEY'' only to trade him a season later for a 6th or 7th while eating dead cap, we pass on QBs in the 2021 draft because we traded for Sam and gave up a haul to get for a QB who was a bust at that point, and before the 2021 draft ends, we've guaranteed his 5th year at short of 19M. Sam and the OL are a complete poo show in 2021, in 2022 we trade for another QB his current team wanted to replace / upgrade from Baker Mayfield, who somehow even with the new OL, CMC, and DJ was worse than Sam, and ends up benched in favor of PJ Walker. 
• In this time Rhule won 11 games - 5-11 / 5-12 / 1-4 - two and a half years into his ''7'' year plan. 

_______________________________________________________

I say all of that to set up the following, anyone with a set of eyes knows that Wilks was set up to fail once management decided not to let him select his QB - ''see Josh Rosen since his time in ARI''. People may forget how old that team had become after the Bruce Arians run there with Carson Palmer. Wilks finishes 3-13 and is replaced by an inexperienced coach, who was just FIRED in college, and is given the chance to draft ''his guy'' Kyler number one overall only to be fired after the 3rd year.

Wilks helped the Panthers become a serious team again going 6-6 over 12 games winning more games in a shortened stint than Rhule ever did in any full season, and did so with even less than Rhule had at his disposal at any point in time. CMC was injured under Rhule...ok he was traded for a 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th. Robbie who was a thousand yard receiver became a JAG with Sam, and Baker, he was eventually traded away for a 5th from ARI if memory serves. Chuba who many of us likely loathed after the bad hands / fumbles in his rookie year, all of a sudden became a legit contributor, and D'Onta established himself as one of the better backs in the league run production wise, and was less than 100 yards away from a 1,000 yard season had it not been for a weak ejection in Week 18. Then the biggest Rhule snubs TMJ, and Bozeman, TMJ showed you why he was a 2nd round pick flashing the 50/50 ball ability, along side his speed / size / athleticism. Bozeman came in and immediately anchored the OL a unit that was as sound as any for the majority of the year even with a rookie, and two new additions in free agency and Brady C in year two. 

''But he's too conservative'' let's be honest, looking at what we had on offense / who was calling the plays, alongside the fact that our defense while solid / good is limited no 2nd pass rusher, question marks in the secondary, speed at the second level, etc. we were not constructed to be overly aggressive, for the most part we were aggressive when needed for the most part, and maybe we left some plays out there we'd like to have back in hindsight -- news flash, all coaches / every team feels this way. 

Considering Wilks took a 1-4 team, and got them to 7-10 with all we had surrounding us is about as impressive as it gets, and what's more...the players respect him / his approach. He helped set franchise....let me repeat that FRANCHISE records offensively even though he has a defensive background. To me if you are Tepper, let's see where this goes under his leadership, let him hire ''his'' staff. Many of you may not have known this but see this quote from Rivera:

“The hard part for him there, he was the last guy hired,” Rivera said for Sports Illustrated. “So all the guys that were on his coaching list, they were already locked in. He had to hire guys that he really didn’t want to have to hire. He had to keep guys he didn’t want to keep.”

https://cardswire.usatoday.com/2022/02/04/ron-rivera-steve-wilks-coaching-staff-with-cardinals-was-part-of-problem-in-2018/#:~:text=Offensive coordinator Mike McCoy was,Foote%2C Steve Heiden and others.

That is huge, I don't agree with giving coaches ''full'' roster control (what is rumored for Payton), but they need to be able to hire their staff, these are the guys they work with week in and week out, you need that group of men to be on the same page if you want to see results.

I think we have the right guy, we just need to give him the opportunity, 3 year deal, league average salary, and let's keep Panther's football moving forward -- #KEEPPOUNDING

No

[SetfreexX]

15 minutes ago, UNCrules2187 said:

Brian Flores got DC interviews and is interviewing in Arizona for the HC job.

As for retaining Wilks, no thanks.

 

Rooney satisfaction. 

Though they have a black QB so maybe since Kyler is rumored to have ''next coach'' input I can see it.

[AggieLean]

Nah. 
 

He did a solid job, but I believe the team can do better. I also don’t trust Wilks to develop a new QB or hire the right team to develop one, and that’s what’s most important for the team right now. 

[SetfreexX]

9 minutes ago, Brooklyn 3.0 said:

BuT hE DoeS tHingS tHe PaNTheRS wAY!

Had us .500 over his span vs .300 under Rhule...

Any data on these first year guys you have that says they're guaranteed to do better...?

Every NFL has an identity, you don't go to PIT and get rid of the terrible towel, or drop the who dat in NO. 

Rhule had no idea wtf he was doing, and all I'm saying is I'm not sold on a 1st year OC turned HC being the answer. 

Some of you want ''change for the sake of change''. 

And Off or Def HC, none of that matters until we find a QB, and I was on the ''I want an offensive minded coach to pair with our rookie'' train, I beat the drum for it after seeing how Rivera mismanaged Cam, but I also see how McD and company up in Buffalo haven't failed Josh Allen. I see the ''Panthers Way'' working in Buffalo better than it ever did here. 

[Malt Liquor]

9-19 as head coach in the NFL says alot

[SetfreexX]

1 minute ago, AggieLean said:

Nah. 
 

He did a solid job, but I believe the team can do better. I also don’t trust Wilks to develop a new QB or hire the right team to develop one, and that’s what’s most important for the team right now. 

If McD and company can do it in BUF why not here, what's the reason for this concern with Wilks?

He didn't get to select a QB in ARI, and squeezed out 6-6 with Mayfield / Sam / PJ. 

And this isn't sarcasm, this is a legit open conversation.