Offensive Line

[kungfoodude]

17 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Just remembering back a few months ago when there were people trying to tell me Bozeman must not be that good since he didn't earn playing time under Rhule

I am guilty of saying this about TMJ, although he hasn't exactly looked like a stud, regardless.

That takeaway should be that almost all of our players deserve some freedom from judgement during the Rhule era. He had a way of ruining a lot of things.

[Waldo]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

The salary cap is intended to make sure all teams have an annual limit to what they spend on salary.

However that is literally not what happens. You can go an INSANE amount over that limit(like the Rams did) to win in a year span(or multiple years, if you want). That is precisely why I say it isn't real. It isn't any more real than saying that the if I make $578,125 in income in 2023 that I have to pay 37% in income taxes. Sure....if I am an idiot and don't use every available loophole to ensure that doesn't happen. That is what is happening here. Teams use these loopholes to make that salary cap almost nonexistent.

CMC is a great example of an insanely bad personnel move. We paid a lower value player an insane sum of money that he was not worth. And then we doubled down by making this deal very unfriendly to the cap. So when you make mistakes like that, you can either cut bait like we did, eat a player that kills your cap or keep extending him forever to alleviate the impact of the original dumb decision. Shaq is yet another example of this.

Creating cap problems isn't nearly as detrimental to your future as trading away premium draft capital in a "win now" mode. THAT is how you end up fuged in the long term. Because not having cheap and potentially elite talent to bring along as you replace more expensive players is a recipe for disaster.

The limit is real, they cheat the system by pushing dead money forward, they are still under the cap that year. It's a new way to manipulate the old system but people act like it's a bottomless well and it's not. The Saints already proved that.

Saying it's not real is incorrect and missleading. It's ellastic and allows for a lot of creativity in dealing with cash flow, now ans in the future. That saying is just incorect but I get what you are intending.

I still think it will receed a little bit back into a system where it is used and cleaned up in cycles not as large as the Saints or Rams used. It's such a scorched earth stratagy. The fact the Saints did it so long without another ring should be a case study at some point for the NFL.

 

[Jay Roosevelt]

We needed depth anyway; I don't see how this effects us too much.

[Mr. Scot]

Re: The Cap

From what I've read, what the Saints have been doing for the last several years is now pretty much SOP for teams all over the league.

So if you're one of those folks who's been waiting for that "next year" when we're suddenly going to have a ton of cap space to load up on free agents and whatnot, you should probably just abandon that hope.

This is how it's done now...

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, Waldo said:

The limit is real, they cheat the system by pushing dead money forward, they are still under the cap that year. It's a new way to manipulate the old system but people act like it's a bottomless well and it's not. The Saints already proved that.

Saying it's not real is incorrect and missleading. It's ellastic and allows for a lot of creativity in dealing with cash flow, now ans in the future. That saying is just incorect but I get what you are intending.

I still think it will receed a little bit back into a system where it is used and cleaned up in cycles not as large as the Saints or Rams used. It's such a scorched earth stratagy. The fact the Saints did it so long without another ring should be a case study at some point for the NFL.

 

It is a bottomless well, you can kick the can forever and as old contracts drop off they are replaced by new ones. 

It isn't real because it quite literally doesn't work the way it was intended. The intent was a fair system that allows small market teams to compete with larger market teams whole simultaneously suppressing salaries across the league so that it doesn't turn into soccer or MLB. Well.....the first part of that hasn't worked well because of these loopholes. The second part works somewhat well.

The loopholes will continue to be exploited as long as they exist because it is a way teams and owners with more money can get a POTENTIAL competitive advantage. 

It doesn't mean you can completely buy a Super Bowl every year, that doesn't work. But it can allow you to keep and acquire a LOT of talent. Vastly more so than if you aren't using those loopholes. 

But, it is a double edged sword. If you mismanage those assets while performing this juggling act, you might have to make some difficult decisions a few offseasons.

We are not a team that should be worrying about the salary cap. We are not even REMOTELY in bad shape.

[kungfoodude]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Re: The Cap

From what I've read, what the Saints have been doing for the last several years is now pretty much SOP for teams all over the league.

So if you're one of those folks who's been waiting for that "next year" when we're suddenly going to have a ton of cap space to load up on free agents and whatnot, you should probably just abandon that hope.

This is how it's done now...

Yeah, that is why those threads now all disappeared from every offseason.

We all finally realized that they were far, far smarter than we were about how that would work.

It is literally SOP for the overwhelming majority of NFL franchises.

[Stuart Smith]

2 hours ago, 45catfan said:

Good approach, but we don't have 11 picks every draft to re-draft every position.  At some point the evaluators have to hit their mark.  We don't have enough picks THIS draft to fill all the holes we have, let alone re-draft for current positions where there isn't a hole.

I agree, however the OL was a positive for us this year and I hate to see us regress. We really need Fitterer to step up this year with the low draft picks. 

[glenwo2]

Did not read the entire thread but I will just say this :

 

Bozeman, even with his mis-fired QB snap exchanges, is THE reason that O-Line gave Sam time in the pocket more often than not to make throws (good or bad).

If he isn't re-signed, no QB (no matter if it's Corral or Richardson...or any other Drafted one) will have a chance. 

It is IMPERATIVE that Bozeman is re-signed.

It is, to me, a TOP PRIORITY.

Edited January 11, 2023 by glenwo2

[ECHornet]

I’ve been very happy with Fitt since coming here. It took him no time to build a top 10 OL that looks to have staying power. I’ve been pleased with his drafting too. Plus, I’m a fan of the aggressive moves in the draft and with trades. They won’t all work out, but it keeps it interesting for fans. 

[Toomers]

1 hour ago, kungfoodude said:

It is a bottomless well, you can kick the can forever and as old contracts drop off they are replaced by new ones. 

It isn't real because it quite literally doesn't work the way it was intended. The intent was a fair system that allows small market teams to compete with larger market teams whole simultaneously suppressing salaries across the league so that it doesn't turn into soccer or MLB. Well.....the first part of that hasn't worked well because of these loopholes. The second part works somewhat well.

The loopholes will continue to be exploited as long as they exist because it is a way teams and owners with more money can get a POTENTIAL competitive advantage. 

It doesn't mean you can completely buy a Super Bowl every year, that doesn't work. But it can allow you to keep and acquire a LOT of talent. Vastly more so than if you aren't using those loopholes. 

But, it is a double edged sword. If you mismanage those assets while performing this juggling act, you might have to make some difficult decisions a few offseasons.

We are not a team that should be worrying about the salary cap. We are not even REMOTELY in bad shape.

What loopholes are only available to certain teams? Every team has the same amount. Every year. 
 

    They Saints chose this route with a HOF QB. Not unreasonable but they knew what was coming. Now any good players are getting older, with huge dead money attached. They have no QB. Have to let players leave. All that for 7-10. No 1st rounder. But it’s unfair to let a franchise destroy itself? 
 

   And those old contracts have dead money and void years when they “drop off”. Thomas will be dropping off with a 25M dead cap hit shortly. 

[lumbeecheraw75]

Bozeman came here because of Campen. Better make certain he sticks around too while we're at it.

[kungfoodude]

47 minutes ago, Toomers said:

What loopholes are only available to certain teams? Every team has the same amount. Every year. 
 

    They Saints chose this route with a HOF QB. Not unreasonable but they knew what was coming. Now any good players are getting older, with huge dead money attached. They have no QB. Have to let players leave. All that for 7-10. No 1st rounder. But it’s unfair to let a franchise destroy itself? 
 

   And those old contracts have dead money and void years when they “drop off”. Thomas will be dropping off with a 25M dead cap hit shortly. 

The loophole that exists for certain teams is the ability to keep paying out vast sums of cash in signing bonuses over and above the norm. As we all are aware, those massive signing bonuses are paid out at the time of signing. So some owners may not be willing to shell out all that coin regularly. It's not that it isn't accessible, per se, moreso that some are not going to choose to spend money like that. There are notoriously cheap owners in the NFL.

Yeah, I mean "drop off" as in those void years are not infinite. They eventually end. So if you play the game, they drop off and are just replaced by the next guy(or guys) you are pulling the same cap magic with.

It's a tightrope walk, without question.

[Toomers]

30 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The loophole that exists for certain teams is the ability to keep paying out vast sums of cash in signing bonuses over and above the norm. As we all are aware, those massive signing bonuses are paid out at the time of signing. So some owners may not be willing to shell out all that coin regularly. It's not that it isn't accessible, per se, moreso that some are not going to choose to spend money like that. There are notoriously cheap owners in the NFL.

Yeah, I mean "drop off" as in those void years are not infinite. They eventually end. So if you play the game, they drop off and are just replaced by the next guy(or guys) you are pulling the same cap magic with.

It's a tightrope walk, without question.

Then it’s not a loophole. It’s an organizations choice. The owner is paying it this year either way. It’s just getting most early instead of over 17 games in the fall. 
 

  Void years hit immediately when a player is no longer on the team. It’s the same as dead cap. It doesn’t just stay there over years after a player is gone. What’s Matt Ionnadis cap hit for Carolina in 2023? 

Edited January 11, 2023 by Toomers

[heel31ok]

13 hours ago, pantherj said:

I had been harping on getting a big center for years, and we finally have one. He's not the most athletic guy or quick, but that's a lot of weight to having leaning on you all game. He's trouble for smaller d-lines. We could upgrade anywhere along the interior of the o-line through the draft, but with more pressing needs elsewhere it's unlikely. Maybe we'll take a guy later for depth.

I prefer upgrading an o-line until it's the best in the NFL. I would keep upgrading this o-line until we could run on anyone and had excellent pass protection. We know this o-line has plenty of room for improvement because we were totally unable to run the ball against the Steelers, and we're built to run it.

Brady broke his ankle, but it should be fine in time for training camp. Corbett tore his ACL sadly, so don't expect him to be ready by training camp. He would be aiming for week 1 or 2 imo. Should we draft a guard? My answer is always yes to improving the o-line.

SKORONSKY