Tepper clearly wants to change the Panthers identity

[CPF4LIFE]

Completely agree with him on this and have been wanting it for a while.

[trueblade]

4 hours ago, mav1234 said:

 When he took over our D nose dived.

What metric are you using? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand how we're measuring this.

[mav1234]

1 hour ago, trueblade said:

What metric are you using? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand how we're measuring this.

Someone had made a post comparing before and after Wilks, but it was before the NO game, so the comparison isn't necessarily valid. One strong mitigating factor is timing of injuries, though, and also IMO Burns' overuse, which is less a Wilks issue and more a depth issue.

Edited January 10, 2023 by mav1234

[Jay Roosevelt]

It's the right approach. Now we just have to pick the right coach.

[CPcavedweller]

7 hours ago, Saca312 said:

Scrolling through twitter, I took note of one particular statement that really sums up the coaching search so far:

Seems David Tepper is in line with the fans with wanting an identity change. With the amount of offensive minded candidates they are interviewing, looks like the Panthers are seeking to revamp their image and come up with a new identity.

Not one of ground and pound and pray the defense holds up enough, but one where the offense is their own weapon to compete in a league where Mahomes, Burrow and Allen are lighting it up through the air.

A change in philosophy, and that's the direction Tepper clearly wants the Panthers to go and one I hope they do as well.

In particular, like what Billy wants, I'd love to see Ben Johnson coming in. He elevated the Lions offense beyond their talent to compete at a high level despite their deficiencies. Would be beautiful to see similar results in Carolina, and of course beautiful to upgrade from Al Holcomb's straighrforward defense as well.

A change in identity. Hope this rings true when the next HC is announced.

"Pray the defense holds up"?

If you go for an offensive guy, it's more along the lines of "pray that the offense doesn't go up against an elite defense".

How many Super Bowls has Andy Reid won? How many times has he had a Top 5 offense? How many times has the team with the better defense lost the Super Bowl?

Remember 2021? Kansas City comes in flying high and were completely grounded by the team with the better defense? 2019? Rams come in and score THREE points because they went up against a better defense.

How about the Dolphins collapse this year? EPIC.

Now how about the 49er's? Offensive minded head coach who goes with a ground and pound style game plan and allocates resources to defense. They are the best team in football right now with a 7th round pick at QB. 

You can get an offensive minded coach with an INNOVATIVE RUN GAME that is very much smash mouth and finesse, yet allocate resources to defense, and still win championships. You don't have to get NERD MCDANIEL. You don't have to get Nathaniel Hackett (that went well). The best teams in the NFL right now, aside from the Chiefs, are teams that allocated far more resources to defense. Look at the Eagles (smashmouth, finesse offense), 49er's (smash mouth, finesse), Bills (smash mouth, run and gun), Bengals (smash mouth, run and gun type offense).

To be elite, you have to be elite running the ball. To be elite throwing the ball, you need an offensive line that can protect. Ours was 21st in the league in pass block win rate and I saw Ickey get beat what seemed like every other pass pro. 

The point is, Tepper wants to change identity to sell tickets, not to win Championships. If you want to win Championships, you play defense and have an offense predicated on running the ball, whether it's in space or hard nosed. If you can't run the ball, when you face an elite defense you're going to be screwed. 

So I'm sure the fans will get what they want. Wilks deserves the job. Going 6-6 after firing 7 coaches and rotating three QB's including a guy who should be in the USFL?

Furthermore, the Panthers copy cat in Buffalo has shown what a defensive minded head coach can do. Oddly enough, Wilks worked with McDermott for quite a while. I'd say he's more like McDermott and I'd like to see what he and Fitterer could do. 

 

[Swaggasaurus]

Tepper is a fuging moron. To have an elite PASSING game you need an elite PASSER. Otherwise you have whatever we were trying to do with Rhule…which I will call “slamming our dicks  in the door” Give me someone that will adjust and find SOMETHING that we can do successfully and that’s about all we can hope for without having a legit QB

[mav1234]

1 hour ago, trueblade said:

What metric are you using? I'm not trying to be argumentative, I'm just trying to understand how we're measuring this.

so on a very rudimentary comparison, just based on Pro Football Reference's expected points, and excluding the shitshow of a NO game because of who was missing on D and the fact the O just... I have no idea what that was... anyway...

The offense saw a veritable explosion, with more ppg (22.2 vs 18.6) and more total yards (331 vs  271) owed primarily to more rushing yards (but a small amount more passing). Opponents had about the same but with more passing yards (~30 more pg) but fewer rushing yards (~30 pg). When we consider PFR's "expected points" values as averages over their time as HCs, the offense with Rhule underperformed (-7.7), but overperformed with Wilks (3.8) vs expectations given how their opponents play. The defense under Rhule slightly outperformed (-1.2) it under Wilks (-4.5).  

If we throw in the NO game, the defense stays mostly the same but with a slight improvement in expected points (to -3.9), but the offense loses a bit and looks worse under Wilks than Rhule.

So not a nose dive, but also I'd say slightly worse. Owed mostly to injuries? Maybe... though the points we gave up in his first month was awful.

[CPcavedweller]

11 minutes ago, Jay Roosevelt said:

It's the right approach. Now we just have to pick the right coach.

Is it? Why is it the right approach? What offensive minded head coach that didn't allocate more resources to defense has won championships lately? Bill Bellichek won SEVEN as a former DC. McDermott has the Bills on the cusp with mostly former Panthers guys and a Panthers Front Office guy. Andy Reid is the regular season king who falters every post-season. McDaniel in Miami fell apart. Josh McDaniel couldn't win with DeVante Adams and Derek Carr (who played really well for Gruden). Hackett couldn't hack it with a future Hall of Famer at QB and quite the cast at receiver and running back. 

The only way I'd want someone over Wilks is if it's Jim Harbaugh. Give me Jim and I'll be happy. All he has done in coaching is win. He won with Colin Kaepernick for crying out loud. He won at Stanford. He gave Michigan two undefeated regular seasons in a row.

Back up the Brinks truck for Harbaugh. Whatever he wants, give it to him. 

[CPantherKing]

Kafka... must have read my post the other day. lol

Well, I guess waiting 3 years too long is better than not doing it in 2020 when I pointed Kafka out and why. Be glad he is not gone. Package deal with Kafka and Tierney for the offense. Done deal. Dynasty coaches with a GM they don't clash with.  Tierney>Kafka so be prepared to elevate Tierney when he is ready. Don't want to see another McDermott-Beane screw up because ownership/GM can't see what is in front of them.

They will turn it around in 2 to 3 seasons with the team that hires them together.

Bring in DeFillipo as QB coach under Kafka/Tierney. Offense/QB/passing game is fixed.

[carpanfan96]

Smoke and mirrors 

 

So he can come back after hiring Wilks and say his offensive plans wowd everyone.  Then they trade up to 1 or 2 for a qb because it's what Tepper wants and with fit and Wilks he has more control and can meddle in the draft even more   

[BIGH2001]

12 hours ago, Swaggasaurus said:

Tepper is a fuging moron. To have an elite PASSING game you need an elite PASSER. Otherwise you have whatever we were trying to do with Rhule…which I will call “slamming our dicks  in the door” Give me someone that will adjust and find SOMETHING that we can do successfully and that’s about all we can hope for without having a legit QB

Cart before the horse has been the story of this franchise since he took over. 

[PghPanther]

There is only one identity he's interested in........

Ka-Ching!!!

That and a sheeple fan base that will ring up a no sale knot on their foreheads from beating their brains out rooting for this team.

 

 

[Stuart Smith]

On 1/10/2023 at 10:27 AM, Khaki Lackey said:

It's not dumb on Tepper's part. The math is simple. I've been saying it for years. Conservative, play not to lose, defensive minded coaches gets you .500.

John Fox career win percentage = .520

Ron Rivera = .521

That's a two decade sample size right there. Defensive coaches that seem to not be dead set on conservative offenses (Bellichick/McDermott) are the special outliers that can win. 

Common denominator was poor GM.