Harbaugh to Carolina Makes Too Much Sense...

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I'm with Fu that Harbaugh is the most attractive option out there but likely wears out his welcome half dozen years down the road give or take. I'm willing to live with that at this point if he can change the culture of this place to something that wins more consistently, but am extremely leary of giving full control to any HC.

It just never works in the modern NFL. The job is too big for any one man. You need a fully empowered GM to run the FO, not a HC's puppet.

Yeah, you can't pursue Harbaugh blindly. He may have conditions that just make him not an option for us, even if he is generally the best possible coach available. 

[kungfoodude]

2 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Remember who own the Broncos now.  Tepper could get outbid.  The old Broncos owners could not have got into a bidding war with Tepper, the Waltons, however...they have money to burn.

I really don't think it's going to boil down to money. It's going to be who meets whatever personnel or FO demands that Harbaught has and what is the better situation for him. Any of these teams interested will pay whatever he wants.

[Ricky Spanish]

I honestly don't want him.

Yes he was an NFL coach for a period of time, but he has been in college for a good bit now, and with that comes the megalomania of being a college coach.

I don't want that personality around this team anymore. 

I think he'd want too much control and I don't trust him. He is constantly leveraging against Michigan to get more money out of them. It's the same slimey stuff that Rhule did. 

No thanks.

[KatsAzz]

10 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

I think if you go Harbaugh it's with the full knowledge that he is probably here at most 5-6 years. But, if you get a ring in that timespan, it was worth it. Or, really, if we are a consistent 10+ win team. At least then we are a very attractive option for the next round of coaching hires.

I do think he will wear out his welcome no matter where he goes.

I would be fine with Harbaugh staying here 5-6 years because the average tenure for an NFL coach is approximately just 3.2 years.

Several head coaches have already lost their jobs, with at least a few more firings expected later.

[HPPantherzfan]

3 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Remember who own the Broncos now.  Tepper could get outbid.  The old Broncos owners could not have got into a bidding war with Tepper, the Waltons, however...they have money to burn.

It may not be just about the money though.  He would be inheriting a train wreck.  A QB that still calls offensive plays from the Seahawks, who is over paid and currently can't hit the broad side of a barn...on top of that, with a contract that makes him a fixture for the organization for a few years.  Competition in the division, especially with what I mentioned above, also makes it unattractive for a coach that will probably have his pick of teams.  Money is an object, for sure, but it may not be the only thing he will be looking at

[t96]

24 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

The concern is that he might be a "complete control" coach again. If that is the case, I am not sure I want him. 

He is easily the most accomplished coach available this cycle but we just got over that kind of thing. I don't think I want to make that mistake again.

Some of the best coaches in the entire league have been full control guys -- Belichick, Reid, Carroll...

The issue wasn't giving a coach full control, it was who we gave it to. Harbaugh already has a proven track record of significant NFL success, I would have zero hesitations giving him whatever he wanted and letting him run things.

[KatsAzz]

3 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Yeah, you can't pursue Harbaugh blindly. He may have conditions that just make him not an option for us, even if he is generally the best possible coach available. 

You are 100% correct. The conditions he could expect might very well be a big show stopper to his hiring.

Tepper and the other interested owners would have to decide if those conditions were reasonable before talking about a serious contract offer.

[MillionDollarCam]

I’m not sold on Harbaugh, there’s numerous questions surrounding his overall ability to work well with others (among other things).

When Harbaugh moved on from the 49ers it was reported by Business Insider that he had a horrible relationship with San Francisco’s front office and then Rapoport and Deion Sanders reported that a lot of of the veteran players on the 49ers had issues with Harbaugh.

Then you get into the fact that the guy just can’t seem the finish (yes, I know I sound like Steve Wilks). He’s gone 2-7 in bowl games and couldn’t bring a Super Bowl to San Francisco despite compiling a record of 44-19-1.

Finally, you have the pure coaching aspect, he’s supposed to be an offensive coach, so make these numbers make sense.

San Francisco’s Total Offense Rankings During Harbaugh’s Tenure

2011 - 26th

2012 - 11th

2013 - 24th

2014 - 20th

So what exactly are you getting with Harbaugh? An offensive coach that can’t… coach offense?

Edited January 3, 2023 by MillionDollarCam

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, t96 said:

Some of the best coaches in the entire league have been full control guys -- Belichick, Reid, Carroll...

The issue wasn't giving a coach full control, it was who we gave it to. Harbaugh already has a proven track record of significant NFL success, I would have zero hesitations giving him whatever he wanted and letting him run things.

Technically, Carroll doesn't have complete control in Seattle but I get what you mean.

I am just not sure Harbaugh is the guy I want with complete control. I am not convinced that is a good idea.

[t96]

16 minutes ago, WarPanthers89 said:

Do not want. He seems to be a tool and they had very mixed reports when he left the 49ers. I know a lot of you are Harbaugh stans but this is just my opinion. I want a current NFL coach. 

He's absolutely a tool and a douche but he's not pure scum cheater like Belichick, Payton and outside of significant issues like that (or off field) all I care about is winning, which Harbaugh does. We've had a "family" culture our entire history, how has it worked out? I'd much rather have a coach who pisses off some of his players while we win than a coach like Wilks who every single player loves but we are mediocre. To win in this league you have to make incredibly difficult decisions, and that is going to piss some people off and rub people the wrong way.

[t96]

4 minutes ago, kungfoodude said:

Technically, Carroll doesn't have complete control in Seattle but I get what you mean.

I am just not sure Harbaugh is the guy I want with complete control. I am not convinced that is a good idea.

pretty sure Carroll has final say over the roster, that's really all that matters in terms of having control

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawksrsquo-pete-carroll-now-a-super-bowl-coach-reflects-on-time-with-jets/

 

relevant quote from the article:

Quote

In Seattle, Carroll has the final say on all football personnel matters. He looks back at the lack of control he had with the Jets and now calls it “an interim type of situation.”

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by t96

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, MillionDollarCam said:

I’m not sold on Harbaugh, there’s numerous questions surrounding his overall ability to work well with others (among other things).

When Harbaugh moved on from the 49ers it was reported by Business Insider that he had a horrible relationship with San Francisco’s front office and then Rapoport and Deion Sanders reported that a lot of of the veteran players on the 49ers had issues with Harbaugh.

Then you get into the fact that the guy just can’t seem the finish (yes, I know I sound like Steve Wilks). He’s gone 2-7 in bowl games and couldn’t bring a Super Bowl to San Francisco despite compiling a record of 44-19-1.

Finally, you have the pure coaching aspect, he’s supposed to be an offensive coach, so make these numbers make sense.

San Francisco’s Total Offense Rankings During Harbaugh’s Tenure

2011 - 26th

2012 - 11th

2013 - 24th

2014 - 20th

So what exactly are you getting with Harbaugh? An offensive coach that can’t… coach offense?

I think something we all need to immediately throw out the window is what he did in college. That applies to his previous and current college head coaching gigs. College football so vastly different that you may as well consider it Major League Soccer. It genuinely has absolutely nothing to do with NFL success(or lack thereof).

[top dawg]

12 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Remember who own the Broncos now.  Tepper could get outbid.  The old Broncos owners could not have got into a bidding war with Tepper, the Waltons, however...they have money to burn.

Coaching contracts aren't in the billions, they're in the millions, and relatively low millions at that. Any NFL owner can pay Harbaugh big money. It's not a matter of money, it's a matter of will. It's a matter of other things like control, power and length of contract. The owners will be thinking about perception and value as well. They don't want to look like fools by overpaying. They'll only go so far. Tepper has already proven that he's willing to go outside the norms to get his guy. 

[kungfoodude]

3 minutes ago, t96 said:

pretty sure Carroll has final say over the roster, that's really all that matters in terms of having control

 

https://www.seattletimes.com/sports/seahawksrsquo-pete-carroll-now-a-super-bowl-coach-reflects-on-time-with-jets/

Okay, I wasn't aware he had that. Especially with a guy like Schneider being there.

Which, in reality, even complete control is still a collaborative effort. Being a full time HC and full time GM is too big of a job for anyone, really.

Fitterer already signed up with that as his deal so I doubt there would be much of an adjustment there.