Fitterer Burned us, but he can fix it.

[top dawg]

 

The first thing that I'd like to say is that I'm still a supporter of Fitterer. I think that he's made mistakes, but I also believe that he learns from his mistakes. I like it that he's not a sit-on-your-hands type of manager and appears willing to think outside the box. The compensation for Darnold troubled me, and Darnold's premature extension was flabbergasting, but then he also acquired Mayfield for a song and a dance. That shows growth. Furthermore, he's identified some talented players, and he's tried to mitigate mistakes of being a little loosey-goosey with draft capital by acquiring extra picks or replacement picks (sometimes on the fly), while providing coaches enough talent to still have at least a facade of competition on the field. And, of course we don't know how much the overarching Rhule effect played a part in the overall decision making.  In my opinion, although Fitterer's GM career has been a mixed bag, his body of work is intriguing enough to want to see more. So, now that I've said all that, let's get down to what some may consider rehashing, but it's that time of year.

I just can't believe that we didn't trade Burns for multiple firsts. If Joe Schmoe fan can see that Burns is not the force-of-nature pass rusher that you need on a consistent basis---on every down, especially when it comes to crunch time---those potential game-changing moments, then Fitterer just has to see it.  Yesterday was the moment that the D-line should've risen to the occasion, and Burns, as the purported leader on the line, has to show up big, or at least allow others to, and he didn't do it. But the thing is, Fitterer should have been able to read that crystal ball, as he had really seen it all before, especially pre the 2022 trade deadline. To me, Fitterer overplayed his hand, and the only way that he can justify not pulling the trigger on Burns is to acquire a more prototypical, beast of a pass rusher this offseason via the draft. Why the draft? Because adding a pass legit rusher via FA means that you have to pay them, and we already have to presumably pay Burns. Unless we get that lost opportunity for two firsts or more back, then Spiderman's help and maybe eventual replacement will only come via the draft.

Another highly questionable move was to skip over Justin Fields (who was basically comparable to Trevor Lawrence in so many ways) and draft Horn. Is it a little justifiable? Yeah, I guess; Horn is a beast when he's playing, but that has been relatively little. Horn's impact on the game is understated when he's healthy, but no way in hell that a CB's impact is more than an actual legitimate franchises changing QB. Fitterer screwed the pooch on Fields, and he really had little excuse because the owner liked Fields. Perhaps Rhule's presence and authority was too much for Fitterer to overcome, but I just don't believe it. If you believe in Fields, and Tepper believed in Fields, you have to sway Rhule your way. So, Fitterer must've believed that Horn was greater than Fields (or that Darnold and Horn's impact meant more to the team). I can hardily say that he was wrong. We have the now oft-hurt Horn, and also the off-hurt Jackson whom Fitterer re-signed. Is this more ideal than going into year three with Fields? No. 

Those were eye-raising moves to be sure, but in my opinion the worst move that Fitterer has made is the really unnecessary money that he gave Ian Thomas, though Thomas's body of work in no way justified what he was paid or maybe an extension at all. 

So, TLDR, Fitterer has made eye-raising to decidely negative jaw-dropping moves, and as a result we need to fix the QB, DE, and TE (and maybe even the DB) positions in order to get back on track and continue the journey that he has made tougher by his choices, but not irrevocably so. Fitterer will presumably be leading the ship (unless we get a high profile, experienced head coach), so he will have the authority to show continued development towards success, or crash and burn with highly questionable managerial decisions. We can't keep having profound franchise-altering boneheaded blips if we expect to transition to the top echelon of teams anytime soon.

[glenwo2]

^^^^ Agreed with everything here.

 

My issue with Fitt is his desire to trade down in the draft.

With the Panthers slated to pick at least #9, I really hope he doesn't do that again.

 

Also, I still agree that picking up Sam's 5th year option was ridiculous and dumb but in hindsight (as it turned out), it led to us potentially having a solid backup for whomever young QB we draft (or Corral) going forward.     A case of Bad Process, Good result there.

 

Edited January 2, 2023 by glenwo2

[TheBigKat]

TLDR

[glenwo2]

1 minute ago, TheBigKat said:

TLDR

"Fitterer made some mistakes but learned from them, imo"

[mav1234]

It's hard for me to know what is Fitterer, and what is Rhule and our owner.

I guarantee you that Tepper was consulted on the Burns trade. I'm not saying he is the reason it didn't happen, but for any player of high value, the owner is consulted.

The repeated attempts at shortcuts and reclamation projects has me very concerned. Was that Fitt, or Rhule? I tend to think more the later than the former, especially because half of those guys were people the idiot recruited in college.

So what next? Where does this team go from here?  Hopefully, we build the team right.  We're going to have some difficulties navigating contracts the next year or two, but I think we have a solid team with some very big holes.

[Tr3ach]

7 minutes ago, top dawg said:

 

The first thing that I'd like to say is that I'm still a supporter of Fitterer. I think that he's made mistakes, but I also believe that he learns from his mistakes. I like it that he's not a sit-on-your-hands type of manager and appears willing to think outside the box. The compensation for Darnold troubled me, and Darnold's premature extension was flabbergasting, but then he also acquired Mayfield for a song and a dance. That shows growth. Furthermore, he's identified some talented players, and he's tried to mitigate mistakes of being a little loosey-goosey with draft capital by acquiring extra picks or replacement picks (sometimes on the fly), while providing coaches enough talent to still have at least a facade of competition on the field. And, of course we don't know how much the overarching Rhule effect played a part in the overall decision making.  In my opinion, although Fitterer's GM career has been a mixed bag, his body of work is intriguing enough to want to see more. So, now that I've said all that, let's get down to what some may consider rehashing, but it's that time of year.

I just can't believe that we didn't trade Burns for multiple firsts. If Joe Schmoe fan can see that Burns is not the force-of-nature pass rusher that you need on a consistent basis---on every down, especially when it comes to crunch time---those potential game-changing moments, then Fitterer just has to see it.  Yesterday was the moment that the D-line should've risen to the occasion, and Burns, as the purported leader on the line, has to show up big, or at least allow others to, and he didn't do it. But the thing is, Fitterer should have been able to read that crystal ball, as he had really seen it all before, especially pre the 2022 trade deadline. To me, Fitterer overplayed his hand, and the only way that he can justify not pulling the trigger on Burns is to acquire a more prototypical, beast of a pass rusher this offseason via the draft. Why the draft? Because adding a pass legit rusher via FA means that you have to pay them, and we already have to presumably pay Burns. Unless we get that lost opportunity for two firsts or more back, then Spiderman's help and maybe eventual replacement will only come via the draft.

Another highly questionable move was to skip over Justin Fields (who was basically comparable to Trevor Lawrence in so many ways) and draft Horn. Is it a little justifiable? Yeah, I guess; Horn is a beast when he's playing, but that has been relatively little. Horn's impact on the game is understated when he's healthy, but no way in hell that a CB's impact is more than an actual legitimate franchises changing QB. Fitterer screwed the pooch on Fields, and he really had little excuse because the owner liked Fields. Perhaps Rhule's presence and authority was too much for Fitterer to overcome, but I just don't believe it. If you believe in Fields, and Tepper believed in Fields, you have to sway Rhule your way. So, Fitterer must've believed that Horn was greater than Fields (or that Darnold and Horn's impact meant more to the team). I can hardily say that he was wrong. We have the now oft-hurt Horn, and also the off-hurt Jackson whom Fitterer re-signed. Is this more ideal than going into year three with Fields? No. 

Those were eye-raising moves to be sure, but in my opinion the worst move that Fitterer has made is the really unnecessary money that he gave Ian Thomas, though Thomas's body of work in no way justified what he was paid or maybe an extension at all. 

So, TLDR, Fitterer has made eye-raising to decidely negative jaw-dropping moves, and as a result we need to fix the QB, DE, and TE (and maybe even the DB) positions in order to get back on track and continue the journey that he has made tougher by his choices, but not irrevocably so. Fitterer will presumably be leading the ship (unless we get a high profile, experienced head coach), so he will have the authority to show continued development towards success, or crash and burn with highly questionable managerial decisions. We can't keep having profound franchise-altering boneheaded blips if we expect to transition to the top echelon of teams anytime soon.

I definitely agree with your take on not trading Burns.  One of the worst decisions we've made as a franchise.  Not the worst but it's up there.  Hes a one trick rusher.  Hes elite if he gets around the edge with his speed rush but once lineman gets their hands on him he completely stops rushing and stands up.   That's not even factoring his run defense or his contract situation.  Bad bad decision.  The fields part I dont really agree with though.  Hes flashy in the ground game but that's about it.   I saw a play yesterday where the lions literally rushed 0 and he threw an interception.  Elite runner, below average passer.   Elite runners dont get it done in the playoffs.  Back to Burns though I hope maybe they put him out there and see if they could still get 2 firsts for him this offseason.   Two firsts and a second I definitely dont see again though. 

[*FreeFua*]

Lol at thinking it was Fitterer who passed on Fields 

[glenwo2]

1 minute ago, *FreeFua* said:

Lol at thinking it was Fitterer who passed on Fields 

What a punchable face.

[Waldo]

He deserves to get fired with the work he has done to date. I also think we can do a lot better than him, hell Seattle's draft was a lot better without him the last year. He was a Rhule hire and there is no escaping that fact and it should be enough to have already moved on from him. 

Do not do a mega deal with Burns. Do not do anymore stupid contracts that push massive dead money back into unplayable years, it hasn't worked here and it's time to clear the books and start over. Save that strategy for when we have a QB that is worth a franchise type contract. Clean the house and get rid of the crappy players who were 'OOU' and not good enough to justify their pay, Thomas and Jackson come to mind. Basically do everything he hasn't done here and I could start to try to respect him, otherwise it's his name we will be called to be fired next at games. 

[45catfan]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

 

The first thing that I'd like to say is that I'm still a supporter of Fitterer. I think that he's made mistakes, but I also believe that he learns from his mistakes. I like it that he's not a sit-on-your-hands type of manager and appears willing to think outside the box. The compensation for Darnold troubled me, and Darnold's premature extension was flabbergasting, but then he also acquired Mayfield for a song and a dance. That shows growth. Furthermore, he's identified some talented players, and he's tried to mitigate mistakes of being a little loosey-goosey with draft capital by acquiring extra picks or replacement picks (sometimes on the fly), while providing coaches enough talent to still have at least a facade of competition on the field. And, of course we don't know how much the overarching Rhule effect played a part in the overall decision making.  In my opinion, although Fitterer's GM career has been a mixed bag, his body of work is intriguing enough to want to see more. So, now that I've said all that, let's get down to what some may consider rehashing, but it's that time of year.

I just can't believe that we didn't trade Burns for multiple firsts. If Joe Schmoe fan can see that Burns is not the force-of-nature pass rusher that you need on a consistent basis---on every down, especially when it comes to crunch time---those potential game-changing moments, then Fitterer just has to see it.  Yesterday was the moment that the D-line should've risen to the occasion, and Burns, as the purported leader on the line, has to show up big, or at least allow others to, and he didn't do it. But the thing is, Fitterer should have been able to read that crystal ball, as he had really seen it all before, especially pre the 2022 trade deadline. To me, Fitterer overplayed his hand, and the only way that he can justify not pulling the trigger on Burns is to acquire a more prototypical, beast of a pass rusher this offseason via the draft. Why the draft? Because adding a pass legit rusher via FA means that you have to pay them, and we already have to presumably pay Burns. Unless we get that lost opportunity for two firsts or more back, then Spiderman's help and maybe eventual replacement will only come via the draft.

Another highly questionable move was to skip over Justin Fields (who was basically comparable to Trevor Lawrence in so many ways) and draft Horn. Is it a little justifiable? Yeah, I guess; Horn is a beast when he's playing, but that has been relatively little. Horn's impact on the game is understated when he's healthy, but no way in hell that a CB's impact is more than an actual legitimate franchises changing QB. Fitterer screwed the pooch on Fields, and he really had little excuse because the owner liked Fields. Perhaps Rhule's presence and authority was too much for Fitterer to overcome, but I just don't believe it. If you believe in Fields, and Tepper believed in Fields, you have to sway Rhule your way. So, Fitterer must've believed that Horn was greater than Fields (or that Darnold and Horn's impact meant more to the team). I can hardily say that he was wrong. We have the now oft-hurt Horn, and also the off-hurt Jackson whom Fitterer re-signed. Is this more ideal than going into year three with Fields? No. 

Those were eye-raising moves to be sure, but in my opinion the worst move that Fitterer has made is the really unnecessary money that he gave Ian Thomas, though Thomas's body of work in no way justified what he was paid or maybe an extension at all. 

So, TLDR, Fitterer has made eye-raising to decidely negative jaw-dropping moves, and as a result we need to fix the QB, DE, and TE (and maybe even the DB) positions in order to get back on track and continue the journey that he has made tougher by his choices, but not irrevocably so. Fitterer will presumably be leading the ship (unless we get a high profile, experienced head coach), so he will have the authority to show continued development towards success, or crash and burn with highly questionable managerial decisions. We can't keep having profound franchise-altering boneheaded blips if we expect to transition to the top echelon of teams anytime soon.

Not gonna lie, I skimmed it. However, while Fitts has made some missteps, it can nearly be all fixed in just one offseason.  We have FIVE picks in the top 103 selections.  Firstly, he should not piss any of those away on a trade up.  I don't care how hard the fan base stomps their feet and whines for a QB.  We HAVE TO come away with a TE, WR, MLB and DE (not necessarily in the order) with the first 4 of them.   If we want to take a shot at a QB, rounds 3 or 4 will be the area.  Otherwise, we need to draft a RB, OLB and DB.  A DT or IOL would be nice, but we just don't have enough picks unless we trade back.

At this point, Burns has to be extended since he wasn't traded.  Brown and Luvu should be too.  Wilson, Elflein and Haynes need to be cap casualties.  That will create just enough cap room for roughly 2 mid-tier starting guys and a few back-up/STs types.  I like Bozeman, but he's gonna have to take a hometown deal to stay, or extremely back loaded one at very least.

Lastly.  I think Tepper will get Fitts input on the HC search.  While Tepper will make the final call, Fitts will likely help mold the list of candidates.  This may be the most crucial decision(s) he makes all offseason.  That's not hyperbole.

If Scott knocks all of of these moves out of the ballpark, this team will be in the playoffs next winter...I have no doubt.

[glenwo2]

12 minutes ago, 45catfan said:

Not gonna lie, I skimmed it. However, while Fitts has made some missteps, it can nearly be all fixed in just one offseason.  We have FIVE picks in the top 103 selections.  Firstly, he should not piss any of those away on a trade up.  I don't care how hard the fan base stomps their feet and whines for a QB.  We HAVE TO come away with a TE, WR, MLB and DE (not necessarily in the order) with the first 4 of them.   If we want to take a shot at a QB, rounds 3 or 4 will be the area.  Otherwise, we need to draft a RB, OLB and DB.  A DT or IOL would be nice, but we just don't have enough picks unless we trade back.

Tight-End should be the #1 position we draft, imo. 

 

[mrcompletely11]

37 minutes ago, top dawg said:

 

The first thing that I'd like to say is that I'm still a supporter of Fitterer. I think that he's made mistakes, but I also believe that he learns from his mistakes. I like it that he's not a sit-on-your-hands type of manager and appears willing to think outside the box. The compensation for Darnold troubled me, and Darnold's premature extension was flabbergasting, but then he also acquired Mayfield for a song and a dance. That shows growth. Furthermore, he's identified some talented players, and he's tried to mitigate mistakes of being a little loosey-goosey with draft capital by acquiring extra picks or replacement picks (sometimes on the fly), while providing coaches enough talent to still have at least a facade of competition on the field. And, of course we don't know how much the overarching Rhule effect played a part in the overall decision making.  In my opinion, although Fitterer's GM career has been a mixed bag, his body of work is intriguing enough to want to see more. So, now that I've said all that, let's get down to what some may consider rehashing, but it's that time of year.

I just can't believe that we didn't trade Burns for multiple firsts. If Joe Schmoe fan can see that Burns is not the force-of-nature pass rusher that you need on a consistent basis---on every down, especially when it comes to crunch time---those potential game-changing moments, then Fitterer just has to see it.  Yesterday was the moment that the D-line should've risen to the occasion, and Burns, as the purported leader on the line, has to show up big, or at least allow others to, and he didn't do it. But the thing is, Fitterer should have been able to read that crystal ball, as he had really seen it all before, especially pre the 2022 trade deadline. To me, Fitterer overplayed his hand, and the only way that he can justify not pulling the trigger on Burns is to acquire a more prototypical, beast of a pass rusher this offseason via the draft. Why the draft? Because adding a pass legit rusher via FA means that you have to pay them, and we already have to presumably pay Burns. Unless we get that lost opportunity for two firsts or more back, then Spiderman's help and maybe eventual replacement will only come via the draft.

Another highly questionable move was to skip over Justin Fields (who was basically comparable to Trevor Lawrence in so many ways) and draft Horn. Is it a little justifiable? Yeah, I guess; Horn is a beast when he's playing, but that has been relatively little. Horn's impact on the game is understated when he's healthy, but no way in hell that a CB's impact is more than an actual legitimate franchises changing QB. Fitterer screwed the pooch on Fields, and he really had little excuse because the owner liked Fields. Perhaps Rhule's presence and authority was too much for Fitterer to overcome, but I just don't believe it. If you believe in Fields, and Tepper believed in Fields, you have to sway Rhule your way. So, Fitterer must've believed that Horn was greater than Fields (or that Darnold and Horn's impact meant more to the team). I can hardily say that he was wrong. We have the now oft-hurt Horn, and also the off-hurt Jackson whom Fitterer re-signed. Is this more ideal than going into year three with Fields? No. 

Those were eye-raising moves to be sure, but in my opinion the worst move that Fitterer has made is the really unnecessary money that he gave Ian Thomas, though Thomas's body of work in no way justified what he was paid or maybe an extension at all. 

So, TLDR, Fitterer has made eye-raising to decidely negative jaw-dropping moves, and as a result we need to fix the QB, DE, and TE (and maybe even the DB) positions in order to get back on track and continue the journey that he has made tougher by his choices, but not irrevocably so. Fitterer will presumably be leading the ship (unless we get a high profile, experienced head coach), so he will have the authority to show continued development towards success, or crash and burn with highly questionable managerial decisions. We can't keep having profound franchise-altering boneheaded blips if we expect to transition to the top echelon of teams anytime soon.

Carl is going to be pissed

[Harbingers]

42 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

^^^^ Agreed with everything here.

 

My issue with Fitt is his desire to trade down in the draft.

With the Panthers slated to pick at least #9, I really hope he doesn't do that again.

 

Also, I still agree that picking up Sam's 5th year option was ridiculous and dumb but in hindsight (as it turned out), it led to us potentially having a solid backup for whomever young QB we draft (or Corral) going forward.     A case of Bad Process, Good result there.

 

We have a plethora of picks this year. Enough we could probably conceivably trade for a second(maybe even third) first round if we wanted to. 

[45catfan]

21 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Tight-End should be the #1 position we draft, imo. 

 

Tell that to 99% of the Huddle.  We are in the VAST minority on that sentiment my friend.  I started beating the replace Greg Olsen drum when he re-broke his foot.  Like Jordan Gross, it will probably take this thick-skulled organization another few years to realize the void that's staring them straight in the face.