Wilks Set This Team Back

[stirs]

I would say he failed to make chicken salad out of chicken ____

Probably not the guy for next season, but don't think he set us back

[mrcompletely11]

35 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

The trade deadline was November 1.  They lost to SF on October 30, so negotiations would have taken place prior to that game.  So at the time, Fitt is looking at a team that was 3-3 with losses against Buffalo, Dallas, and at SF.  Stafford was healthy and he'd just beat us, going 26-33 for 253.  Definitely didn't look slowed in that game.  McVay is one of the best coaches in the league - a collapse was simply not imaginable.

And we still don't know where those picks will be in 2024 and 2025.  Hard to know for certain in late October of 2022.

Again - I'm with you - I would have done the deed.  But the jury is still out on where those picks will be.  Fitt played it conservative - assuming they would be late firsts.  Late first round is usually not a place you find a Brian Burns.  The only 2 DEs ahead of Burns in sacks are Bosa and Garrett, who went 2nd and 1st overall in their respective drafts.  I don't think people appreciate how special Burns is.

He's not that special all things considered 

[grimesgoat]

33 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He's not that special all things considered 

Among DEs, he's 3rd in sacks, 2nd in tackles, 3rd in TFL, 7th in QB hits.

Plus he's made the pro bowl 2 out of 4 years.

Dude is only 24.  Peak years are yet to come.

Are there a lot of guys like this?

 

[mrcompletely11]

34 minutes ago, grimesgoat said:

Among DEs, he's 3rd in sacks, 2nd in tackles, 3rd in TFL, 7th in QB hits.

Plus he's made the pro bowl 2 out of 4 years.

Dude is only 24.  Peak years are yet to come.

Are there a lot of guys like this?

 

His pff grade is 65.  He is a total liability in the run game as we saw and he rarely if ever completely dominates a game.  Now all that is fine but he is not worth 2 firsts and a second on top of 30 million per.    At no point was he ever doubled on Sunday and its been like that all year.  Offenses do not have to scheme around him.  He is a one trick pony.  Nobody is saying he isnt good or doesnt bring value but all things considered I would have taken the 3 high draft picks and saved the money we are inevitably going to pay him.   And that is even before you look at the rams situation and what potentially could happen to them. 

 

There are roughly 20 guys with double digit sacks and many of those are guys picked in the 2nd, 3rd and even 4rth rounds.  There are guys like Reddick that can be got in free agency.  But all in all for me trading cmac and then not trading burns clearly shows that fitt is in over his head with no clear plan.   Until you have a qb none of this poo matters and those picks could have potentially helped us in acquiring one.   

[grimesgoat]

20 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Not rosiest. The 2023 2nd did improve but it was the 2024/2025 1st round picks that were the prize. The Rams would also not have had a 1st and 2nd in 2023 and no 1sts for 2024/2025. Couple that with signing Burns and they aren’t bringing in any draft talent.

Few other points:

1. Stafford hasn’t been healthy all year. Did you miss his preseason elbow issues? He had one good game against Atlanta’s shitty D and before the trade in his other 5 games he had 3 TDs and 6 INTs and that’s with a healthy Kupp. He was clearly hurt all year and he’ll be 35 in a month. He’s not getting any younger. After 8 straight years of missing no games, he’s missed a half season 2 out of the last 4 years.

2. McVay and Donald both discussed retirement and Donald turns 32 before next season. He had missed 2 total games since his rookie year and is now going to miss 6 this year. Short is not Donald but he went from All-Pro to injured pretty damn quick after 30.

3. I’m not saying Reddick 100% replaces Burns just that money wise you could sign a player at $15M (edge rusher like Reddick) and another at $10-12M (top C or G like Corbett). Those two should be able to get you close to Burns value such that the picks are the icing on the cake.

We would have gotten lucky with the 2023 2nd although it wasn’t surprising that Stafford missed so much time and didn’t really play well. It’s not a stretch IMHO to say that Stafford and the Rams hit their peak last year and because they haven’t had and wouldn’t have had (if we made the trade) draft talent to restock that they are likely to be bottom half in 2023/2024. It wouldn’t surprise me if in 2024 they are bottom tier. SF and Seattle look poised to be the top two in that division the next two years. Again, I don’t see that as super rosy and the Rams weren’t exactly firing on all cylinders when we got the offer.

I get all this.  You make some good points. 

I don't agree on the money issue.  I don't believe there is anyone in free agency next year that can replace Burns for 15m.  We'll see how it shakes out.  But finding a DE with a good chance for 15 sacks in 2023 willing to play here  for less than 25m would be tough.

Last year the Rams traded for Von Miller - which was a springboard for a SB run.  Who's to say Burns would not have done the same.

Fitt can't assume injuries or retirements etc.  With McVay - there is just no way you can assume the bottom will fall out. I think it was the Kupp injury that was the real issue and that happened weeks later. 

Fitt stuck with a known commodity - one of the best young DEs in the game that is still only 24.  The picks are just too uncertain. 

I would have done it, but its not incompetence to not do it. I love the draft - the more picks, the more fun.  But I don't fault Fitts' reasoning here.

[glenwo2]

3 hours ago, countryboi said:

Tanking is for losers, everyone single one of these guys have a job to do. No one is trying to lose their job because the fans want them to Tank

I mean fans can "hope" they come out on the losing end but they should expect them to try their damnest to come out on the winning end.

[LinvilleGorge]

I can't blame Wilks or Tepper for this. I'll take Tepper at his word that he wanted to give Wilks a legit tryout for the HC job and Wilks was obviously trying his ass off to get that job. It is what it is.

But, this is also why I personally just wanted to take our lumps and stick with Rhule through the season. I hope the move at least pays off for Wilks. Maybe he has a long shot of landing a HC job elsewhere or at least a coordinator role.

[PantherOnTheProwl1523]

He inherited the Rhule disaster and what else can he do besides work with what was left by Rhule.  Can't pin this all on Wilks.

[NorthTryon]

2 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

At no point was he ever doubled on Sunday and its been like that all year.  Offenses do not have to scheme around him. 

He was most certainly doubled, chipped, and schemed around on Sunday. Stop making sweeping statements for your argument that are false. That is done way too much on this board! And I can't believe you are still whining about this. The Rams could ball out next year and the 2024 picks end up being late round. Either case, it didn't happen. 

[trueblade]

1 hour ago, NorthTryon said:

He was most certainly doubled, chipped, and schemed around on Sunday. Stop making sweeping statements for your argument that are false. That is done way too much on this board! And I can't believe you are still whining about this. The Rams could ball out next year and the 2024 picks end up being late round. Either case, it didn't happen. 

 

4 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

 At no point was he ever doubled on Sunday and its been like that all year. 

I'm only going to look at three plays, the three most impactful plays Sunday, Evans three bombs catches. If you'd like to check my conclusions, I'll include the video link for you. Note this is the TV feed and not the All 22, so I'm limited to what they show.

TD #1 (starts at 0:09) - Burns gets chipped by the TE and doesn't even engage the LT before the ball is in the air. He actually gets engaged with a LG.

TD#2 (starts at 1:00) - Burns loops inside (might have been a T-E stunt) and gets stonewalled by the LG.

TD#3 (starts at 1:33) - Burns starts to rush and then drops into a short zone.

link: https://www.buccaneers.com/video/mike-evans-best-catches-bucs-panthers-week-17-3-tds The video includes two other catches by Evans, but I only looked at the bombs.

 

Edited January 3, 2023 by trueblade
had the wrong link

[parker]

Wilkes got paid to win football games, not plan the future of the Panthers beyond the time he was going to be here.

 

[Kentucky Panther]

I wouldn’t say he set us back. He was trying to do a job. Did it better than Rhule, but still a pretty mediocre job. 
 

I will say, he definitely didn’t do us any favors. 

[glenwo2]

14 hours ago, Kentucky Panther said:

I wouldn’t say he set us back. He was trying to do a job. Did it better than Rhule, but still a pretty mediocre job. 
 

I will say, he definitely didn’t do us any favors. 

He brought us something Rhule never did :  HOPE.

Albeit it didn't end that way but at least we weren't talking about the draft ad nauseum for a majority of Wilks coaching tenure like we were doing with Rhule coaching and then his departure.

[PootieNunu]

52 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

He brought us something Rhule never did :  HOPE.

Albeit it didn't end that way but at least we weren't talking about the draft ad nauseum for a majority of Wilks coaching tenure like we were doing with Rhule coaching and then his departure.

Yet we are still back to square one and still talking about the draft, just picking a few spots lower.

It was nice that Joe Bob and Mary Alice got to cheer for the Panthers before switching into their other teams jersey, I guess.

It is not like we were making any noise in the playoffs anyway. Wilkes screwed us for personal gain, there is no upside.