Is there still a case for Wilks?

[d-dave]

I think there is a fair amount of "buyer beware" in the NFL HC market.

I was looking to see the coaching fails over the past 12ish years, and I came across this:

https://sports-teller.com/nfl-teams-with-most-head-coach-firings-since-2010/

It was last updated 10/22/22, but it's a good list and shows you the perils of the HC searching.

For every successful NFL coach, there are dozens of failures.  Some of the most successful coaches have come from both the defensive and offensive side of the game.  While having a schematic advantage is really great: how many master play callers are there in the NFL?  Andy Reid, Sean McVay, and Kyle Shanahan?  Then there are some guys who are good, but haven't had enough time to really be consistent.

Then you look at guys like Pete Carroll, Mike Tomlin, Mike Vrabel, Beli-cheat, Brandon Staley, Sean McDermott and John Harbaugh (ST).  They all have defensive (ST for Harbaugh) backgrounds, yet are fielding successful/competitive teams with some offensive pizzaz.  

Looking at the hot lists of candidates, are we getting a master schemer?  Or a coach who can lead, inspire, manage, and make good decisions when the game is on the line?

I don't know, it's not my choice here.  But I think Steve Wilks has the chops to be an NFL coach.  I do like that a lot better than ending up with a Hackett or Rhule situation.  We'll just have to see how it goes.

[Jon Snow]

1 minute ago, cookinbrak said:

Go back and look at the scores. When Wilks takes over, defense stays about the same, offense improves. The area that Wilks had nothing to do with.

This is Rhule's team. He hired the staff and assembled the players. All Wilks was able to show was just how good these players and staff could really be. It appears to be about the 7th to 10th worst team in the league.  That is the reality of the situation regardless of who the coaching staff will be.

[Mr. Scot]

Should probably mention that while I'm not on the Wilks train, my significant other jumped on with both feet a while back and is still there.

Lady Cowboy Fan firmly and absolutely believes the Panthers should hire Wilks.

[Martin]

He is definitely still a candidate. Is he the favorite? Probably not. 

[carpanfan96]

After the Rhule hiring and the turnaround the team had combined with the fact that he didn't have his system in place or his coaches.. 

 

You'd be foolish to think he doesn't have a very good chance

[Waldo]

3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Should probably mention that while I'm not on the Wilks train, my significant other jumped on with both feet a while back and is still there.

Lady Cowboy Fan firmly and absolutely believes the Panthers should hire Wilks.

It's offical, burn it all down.

JK lol kind of not lol

[Mr. Scot]

22 minutes ago, Waldo said:

It's offical, burn it all down.

JK lol kind of not lol

Well let's just say that as far as she knows, I feel exactly the same.

In other words, I am a husband

[SteveSmithTD89]

I'll reserve judgement to see how the hiring process plays out. If we bring in a consultant to help Tepper and we interview the Johnsons and Steichens of the world along with Wilks and everyone is on board then I can get behind it. 

Wilks 100% deserves an interview and consideration for the job outside of a token interview. Whether he's the best man for the job moving forward remains to be seen but I would not hate the idea of Wilks picking his own staff and running the show.

[OceanPanther]

12 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I don't think so. He's a defensive guy and the defense actually got worse.

Before the season started , we thought our defensive backfield was good.  Donte Jackson, Jaycee Horn, CJ Henderson, Xavier Woods, Jeremy Chinn.   Would he have been a better defensive coach if they could actually all play on the field at the same time ? Chinn and Jackson with large amount of missed games. A healthy Horn yesterday might have made him look like a better defensive coach.  What many thought was our strength on defense , actually was worse than  the linebackers and D line.  

I'm not advocating for him to be hired as the HC , but I wonder what he'd be like when he can hire his own coaches, keep or cut his own players,   

Lots of coaches have been fired because their team was crippled with injuries . It's part of the game.

[L-TownCat]

2 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Wilks may not be "the guy" but he's worlds better than Matt Rhule if for no other reason than that he's actually qualified to be an NFL coach.

 

Can’t argue with that.  But it appears they have a similar blind spot.

Even accounting for injury, the defense took a nose dive.  Have to have better coordinators.  

[thefuzz]

No, not in my opinion.

[Mage]

The team hasn't looked good, they have just had a below average schedule.

And who is Wilks going to bring in as OC?  What reason is there to think Wilks of all people will be the one to help find and develop our next QB?  Fox got lucky with Delhomme, but that was a different era and what happened when Delhomme declined?  Rivera got lucky with the No. 1 overall pick and Cam Newton, but hell, who actually thinks Newton's potential was maximized here?  And what happened when we needed a back-up plan to Cam?  Who knows who the Panthers will draft but we need to guarantee ourselves a head coach who we believe can develop a franchise QB for us.  Wilks is very unlikely to be that man.

Lastly, I'm not against hiring defensive-minded guys as HC, but it is time for people to face the facts: there is no evidence Steve Wilks can actually coach a consistently high-level defense.  Blame him or Holcomb, it doesn't matter, they go hand-in-hand. Like I said, he's a poor-mans Rivera.  Rivera has coached or been the HC for many top 10 defenses.  Wilks in 4 years as DC/HC has only finished inside the top 20 in points allowed once (and never in the top 10) and only finished inside the top 20 in yards allowed once, and both happened the same year by the way. Point is his defenses usually are mediocre to bad.  Outside of "leadership" (and look, I'm not saying Wilks ain't a great leader, but being a great leader isn't some overly unique trait to find in a league with hundreds of coaches), what reason is there to keep Wilks?  He doesn't coach great defenses.  What evidence is there that he will hire a good OC?  His OC in Arizona was Byron Leftwich and everyone is seeing how much he sucks as a play-caller without the influence of Arians.  

Honestly, if the Panthers retain Wilks, it would be one of the most disappointing moves by the team that I can remember.  Just a clearly terrible decision (no offense to anyone in support of him, just stating my opinion). 

Edited January 2, 2023 by Mage

[Sgt Schultz]

The case for Wilks is pretty simple.  He has taken a team that was not his, with a coaching staff that was not his, cleared out some people, and posted about a .500 record.

I don’t count the first game against him because he got the keys on Monday and had to sweep up some ashes while getting a team ready.   Make no mistake, The Process left behind a huge mound of ashes.  Toadies in the coaching staff, some toadies on the roster, and a team that was built for speed, athleticism, and “versatility” rather than some speed at skilled positions and brawn on the lines.

The age-old question then is “what did we think was going to happen?”

Honestly, I thought this season was going to be an epic fiasco as soon as the ax fell on The Process.  It’s not that I thought he was “the glue that held it together” because I thought he was a moron at the NFL level.  I just did not see a way forward for a roster constructed with some fundamentally flawed assumptions.  Wilks produced more wins and a better product than I anticipated.

I’m not saying he should be retained as HC.  But, he has earned consideration along with every other candidate available.  I would say that if his answers about how this team needs to move forward are the best, then he gets the job.  But, I think those conversations have probably already happened so the interview is a formality.  He should be a known commodity going into this process.

But, if there is somebody with a better plan who has shown he can lead NFL players, it is their job.

[Mage]

23 minutes ago, Sgt Schultz said:

The case for Wilks is pretty simple.  He has taken a team that was not his, with a coaching staff that was not his, cleared out some people, and posted about a .500 record.

I'm not arguing against Wilks' ability to coach an average team.  What evidence is there to suggest Wilks can take a team over the top?  What about his ability to adjust to the opponent?  Make decisions on the fly?  What connections does Steve Wilks have that would lead us to believe he can bring in a highly touted OC or DC?  He was with Ron Rivera most of his pro coaching career, then spent one year in Arizona (got fired) and one year in Cleveland (got fired).  

And in a league where teams are going younger at HC, it seems weird for me to retain a retread 53-year old head coach with no notable defenses to speak of.  His coaching career is basically as Ron Rivera's right-hand man (seriously, only two of his pro years (the aforementioned Browns and Cardinals stints) were without Ron Rivera), except not nearly as good if we're comparing the defenses each has coached.  It baffles my mind how the same fanbase that universally agreed it was time for Rivera to go (even people in this own thread), now wants to hire his right hand man.  

But if the standard is a .500 record, then by all means.  But I can guarantee you it will go no different than Rivera's run here... except Wilks is less likely to find his Cam Newton and will actually need to develop a QB rather than depend on his rare athleticism.  And we all saw what happened every single time in games when Newton couldn't will the offense to the endzone.

Edited January 2, 2023 by Mage