The letdown is disappointing but it's good for the future

[Seltzer]

4 minutes ago, Cdparr7 said:

Matt Moore. He is Matt Moore. 
 

Career backup who can start stretches if needed but folds as “The Guy”

Come on.  I liked Matt Moore and he was a solid backup, but Sam has played better over the past month than Matt Moore ever did in his entire career.  Full stop.  And Sam's ceiling is light years higher.

Anyone coronating Sam as the 2023 starter is stupid, but I also think it's crazy to act like we're automatically going to find anyone off the street or in the draft that is guaranteed to come in and be better than the guy that has played really good ball here over the past month.

Anyone who think Sam is the reason we lost needs to have their head examined.  If CJ & Keith Taylor don't embarrass themselves out there today, the narrative is how Sam Darnold outdueled Tom Brady on the road in a quasi- playoff game.

And look around the league.  2 Things: 

1) There are way too many teams needing starting level QB's and not near enough QB's capable of being the long-term answer.

2) With a 17th game (and potentially an 18th), having a good backup is paramount b/c they are going to play in meaningful games.

There will be a market for Sam Darnold.  And Baker Mayfield.  And PJ Walker.  Not necessarily starting, although I think Sam & Baker will probably be in the mix for some team based on the way they finished the season.  PJ will almost certainly be on an NFL roster next year.

I understand not wanting to settle for Sam Darnold.  I truly do, and I think the Panthers feel the same way.   But I also think they understand that Sam is still only 25, showed some really good promise the last month, and could be a great bridge starter and/or backup next year.  And if he could somehow play an entire season like he has for the past month, he could legitimately lead this team (or another team) to the playoffs.

[Sam the Cat]

4 hours ago, Seltzer said:

Sam has been overall the best player on offense since he started. He hasn't been perfect, but he has played well enough for us to win. 

In no world should he be the unquestioned starter next year, but I think it would be equally stupid not to resign him to compete.

Throw in all the other qualifiers, but he is only 25. In almost any other game this season (where we have CBs who just decided to not play and coaching that didn't adjust) we would have won.

Pass rusher is by far our biggest need IMO. YGM played better down the stretch, but he has done nothing to warrant starting.

Nothing is guaranteed in the future, but I personally think this team is on the best trajectory it has been in years

I agree with this.  I will add,  I don't know if we have interior dlineman that deserves constant double team like Vita Via...he just push that line in the middle...We need NG like him and an upgrade in pash rusher to compliment Burns and another CB.

[glenwo2]

1 hour ago, Seltzer said:

Anyone who think Sam is the reason we lost needs to have their head examined.

Coach Wilks in his presser.  

[Carl Spackler]

It’s in fact not good for the future because Tepper will make the worst possible hire in the off-season 

[glenwo2]

25 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

It’s in fact not good for the future because Tepper will make the worst possible hire in the off-season 

Tepper : "I'd like to introduce our Newest Hire :  ADAM GASE"

 

 

[YourLastThought]

7 hours ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Yep, let Tampa get assblasted by Dallas at home.

Now, the next step is to trade up with Chicago and draft Stroud or Young

I would pass on that if it were me making that decision. We would have to give us major resources to move up and I dont believe they are worth it.

[bythenbrs]

5 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I would expect someone who would make a great DC to at very least make sure we had a safety over top of Evans at all times after he'd already torched us deep twice.

Honestly, the D got worse after Snow was fired, quit, or whatever.

I  noticed that, too.  Offense got better, defense regressed.  And Wilks is a defense guy?

[X-Clown]

2 hours ago, Seltzer said:

Come on.  I liked Matt Moore and he was a solid backup, but Sam has played better over the past month than Matt Moore ever did in his entire career.  Full stop.

It’s the perfect comparison. Moore was also 25 when he looked the most promising. In the last 5 games of 2009 where he was the starter he went 4-1, threw 8 TDs vs 2 picks, including a 299 yard 3 TD performance to beat a 12-4 Vikings team who were a ref screwjob away from going to the Super Bowl. The only difference is that he wasn’t drafted #3 overall and didn’t have five seasons worth of inconsistent play on tape. I hope the FO doesn’t make the mistake of extrapolating a handful of competent at best games to sticking with him for another season and make 2023 yet another rebuilding year.

[L-TownCat]

No.  No it isn’t.  None of this helps a damn thing.  

[glenwo2]

11 hours ago, X-Clown said:

It’s the perfect comparison. Moore was also 25 when he looked the most promising. In the last 5 games of 2009 where he was the starter he went 4-1, threw 8 TDs vs 2 picks, including a 299 yard 3 TD performance to beat a 12-4 Vikings team who were a ref screwjob away from going to the Super Bowl. The only difference is that he wasn’t drafted #3 overall and didn’t have five seasons worth of inconsistent play on tape. I hope the FO doesn’t make the mistake of extrapolating a handful of competent at best games to sticking with him for another season and make 2023 yet another rebuilding year.

I hope they draft a QB. 

But while they draft one, I don't think it would be a wise idea to toss him into the fire as a Starter from Day one.

He would need to sit, watch, and learn the NFL game.

And for that to happen, we would need a Backup to start for at least half the season (maybe the entire one) before handing the reins over to the young fella. 

You know where I'm going with this, right?    right. 

 

[glenwo2]

19 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Nah, beating N.O. to win a meaningless game that does nothing but cost us draft position would be peak Panthers. That's what we've been doing the past few years. 

Under the current standings, the Panthers (6-10) would pick ninth overall next year, and because of the way the NFL breaks ties for draft order, that's unlikely to change much in the next week.

The league uses strength of schedule to break ties (low to high), and since the Panthers currently have an opponent record of 121-133-1 (.476), they're still going to be on the low end of the seven-win teams if they beat the Saints this weekend.

The top five spots will be occupied, in some order, by the Texans (2-13-1), Bears (3-13), Broncos (4-12, and they owe that pick to the Seahawks), Cardinals (4-12), and Colts (4-11-1).

The Rams, at 5-11, are currently in the sixth spot (that pick is owned by the Lions now).

Spots seven through nine are currently held by the Raiders, Falcons, and Panthers, and the Raiders and Falcons each have lower strength of schedule numbers than the Panthers.

But because the Panthers' .476 strength of schedule is significantly lower than any of the teams that currently have seven wins — the Titans, Saints (who traded that pick to the Eagles), the Browns (who traded that pick to the Texans), Jets, and Steelers — they'd be at the top of that group in draft order with a win against the Saints Sunday.

That won't impact the way they prepare for Sunday's game against the Saints (7-9), but the result won't likely impact the draft order much in either direction.

https://www.panthers.com/news/where-could-the-panthers-pick-in-the-2023-draft

Direct from actual sources. 

So it doesn't matter whether we win or lose so the Panthers can't f*ck up their Draft position regardless. 

Though I'd give Fitterer a good chance of doing just that with his stupid obsession with Trading down.

 

Anyway, now that we know it makes no difference, I would like to see this pathetic season end on a High-note.

Not because I believe in momentum but because I'd rather see a "W" in the end than another "L".

Edited January 2, 2023 by glenwo2

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Under the current standings, the Panthers (6-10) would pick ninth overall next year, and because of the way the NFL breaks ties for draft order, that's unlikely to change much in the next week.

The league uses strength of schedule to break ties (low to high), and since the Panthers currently have an opponent record of 121-133-1 (.476), they're still going to be on the low end of the seven-win teams if they beat the Saints this weekend.

The top five spots will be occupied, in some order, by the Texans (2-13-1), Bears (3-13), Broncos (4-12, and they owe that pick to the Seahawks), Cardinals (4-12), and Colts (4-11-1).

The Rams, at 5-11, are currently in the sixth spot (that pick is owned by the Lions now).

Spots seven through nine are currently held by the Raiders, Falcons, and Panthers, and the Raiders and Falcons each have lower strength of schedule numbers than the Panthers.

But because the Panthers' .476 strength of schedule is significantly lower than any of the teams that currently have seven wins — the Titans, Saints (who traded that pick to the Eagles), the Browns (who traded that pick to the Texans), Jets, and Steelers — they'd be at the top of that group in draft order with a win against the Saints Sunday.

That won't impact the way they prepare for Sunday's game against the Saints (7-9), but the result won't likely impact the draft order much in either direction.

https://www.panthers.com/news/where-could-the-panthers-pick-in-the-2023-draft

Direct from actual sources. 

So it doesn't matter whether we win or lose so the Panthers can't f*ck up their Draft position regardless. 

Though I'd give Fitterer a good chance of doing just that with his stupid obsession with Trading down.

 

Anyway, now that we know it makes no difference, I would like to see this pathetic season end on a High-note.

Not because I believe in momentum but because I'd rather see a "W" in the end than another "L".

Let's still lose to make sure we move on. I don't want a moral victory to lead to sticking with Wilks and Darnold. Let's make it clear we still need major organizational changes. 

[glenwo2]

4 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Let's still lose to make sure we move on. I don't want a moral victory to lead to sticking with Wilks and Darnold. Let's make it clear we still need major organizational changes. 

Sure.   Be sure to let Wilks, Sam, and the rest of the team know that. 

I'm sure they'll do exactly what you want.   

 

Come on, man.  

 

First it was worrying about the team messing up draft position, which I totally understood.

But now it's just about not getting moral victories?

How is that going to affect things?

These are grown men and I seriously doubt they'd want to have their final game of season end on a losers note.

Edited January 2, 2023 by glenwo2

[LinvilleGorge]

20 minutes ago, glenwo2 said:

Sure.   Be sure to let Wilks, Sam, and the rest of the team know that. 

I'm sure they'll do exactly what you want.   

 

Come on, man.  

 

First it was worrying about the team messing up draft position, which I totally understood.

But now it's just about not getting moral victories?

How is that going to affect things?

These are grown men and I seriously doubt they'd want to have their final game of season end on a losers note.

It's all about the future. The present is irrelevant. Welcome to Panthers fandom. It's pretty much the same as Jets fandom. We'll get 'em next year... or next decade... maybe.