So the Titans giving up on Malik Willis already?

[mccjeff]

On 12/30/2022 at 4:12 AM, glenwo2 said:

DAN Montana?

And Joe Marino

[top dawg]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Yeah, I watched Romo’s speech before as well. Dak won the starting spot easily his rookie year. Yes, Romo got hurt again after starting only four games the year before and never started another game.

You can try and caveat it but even Romo admitted that Dak won the starting spot and deserved it. There was no Baker, PJ or Sam that got in his way. Even if Romo was only out for say September, would he have gotten the starting spot back? I’m not so sure he ever would have. He was Wally Pipp’d at age 36 and it doesn’t negate anything I said about Dak. He won the starting spot in preseason and proved it his rookie year. Corral didn’t show anything like that or Wilson, that’s all I’m saying. If he comes back to be a quality starter, he’s a unicorn. I hope we don’t waste another year trying on a slight hope.

Totally different situation. Not even apples to oranges, but remember the "unicorn! "

[frankw]

It's still too early on Corral but I do understand why some people are now pessimistic about his future. With that being said seeing how much better even Sam Darnold looks behind a better oline and with real NFL level coaching who knows with Matt if he can bulk up some he has a chance.

Edited December 31, 2022 by frankw

[LinvilleGorge]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Yeah, you actually can paint most QBs pretty easily based on their first year and round selected. 

Somebody please alert the Jags and Bills that their QBs are trash and one of them should just cut bait on one of those bums and trade him to us for Ian Thomas to recoup some of their investment. Because Trevor Lawrence and Josh Allen looked like straight trash as rookies.

 

[ForJimmy]

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Somebody please alert the Jags and Bills that their QBs are trash and one of them should just cut bait on one of those bums and trade him to us for Ian Thomas to recoup some of their investment. Because Trevor Lawrence and Josh Allen looked like straight trash as rookies.

 

Yeah Mahomes couldn’t even beat out Smith while Manning and Aikman were terrible their rookie years. 

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

 

Wait, did we somehow enter a twilight zone where Lawrence, Mahomes, Aikman, Manning and Allen weren’t all top 12 picks and/or started their rookie seasons? Did you see the “round selected” in my posts you quoted or were you so giddy to think up QBs who started and had bad rookie years? Damn, one of them (Trevor) I’ve posted about a hundred times in here.

I mean JFC guys we are talking about Corral being:

1) drafted in the 3rd round, not drafted first overall or in the top 12

and 2) not beating out two guys dumped by their prior teams with 1 decent year out of 7 and a guy who only made a roster because he played for Rhule

and 3) not showing any flashes and not getting much practice time at all his rookie year.

If you guys are going to use examples like that we might as well just say he’s Tom Brady’s second coming since Tom was drafted later and barely played his rookie year. Woo hoo guys, we found the next Tom Brady, time to celebrate!!!! He did make some throws in practice into a small net so effin A Cotton we have to have a multi- Super Bowl winning QB on the team.

Are you really trying to pretend you didn't try to argue that you can almost certainly predict a QB's future by round drafted and (AND) how he plays as a rookie?

Listen, we're all proud of our opinions here. That's why we come here and talk football. But there's none prouder than you. I'm shocked you aren't the GM of the greatest NFL dynasty we've ever seen. I mean, it's all extremely simple. You have it all figured out.

[mrcompletely11]

8 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Are you really trying to pretend you didn't try to argue that you can almost certainly predict a QB's future by round drafted and (AND) how he plays as a rookie?

Listen, we're all proud of our opinions here. That's why we come here and talk football. But there's none prouder than you. I'm shocked you aren't the GM of the greatest NFL dynasty we've ever seen. I mean, it's all extremely simple. You have it all figured out.

Statistically speaking he is not far off

[LinvilleGorge]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Seriously? Did I say he had zero chance? Sorry man, you used a shitty ass example so your backtracking here isn’t effective. What’s the hit rate on 3rd+ round QBs? What’s the hit rate on the same QBs when they don’t start as a rookie? What’s the hit rate on the same QBs when they had no QB in front of them that was a playoff QB the year before or another 1st round rookie selected the same year?

It’s simple math and odds. My opinion is that he’s got little chance. Why is my opinion something I can’t have here. Plenty of people already think he’s a quality starter. I don’t and I’d bet we take a rookie that gets reps in front of him in 2023.

I'm not backtracking. You're trying to rewrite your argument. You said round drafted AND quality of play. Allen and Lawrence sucked as rookies.

You're more than welcome to your opinion. I just find it comical how highly you regard it. You've never been wrong about anything and can fix any roster issue very easily and you'd draft perfectly.

[Bear Hands]

12 hours ago, stbugs said:

It was a quality post and basically says the same thing I think about Corral. There’s so few guys who become quality starters in the 3rd round+ yet many in this thread expect him to ball out or become our future starter. I’m just being realistic that he’s got very little chance because of the history of 3rd rounders, his drafting by another coach, his lack of flash in preseason and his injuries removing him from a years worth of practice. Russell Wilson was the most recent solid 3rd round QB and he was in the pro bowl in his rookie year.

Hope is fine but I feel like there’s some seriously unrealistic expectations on Corral. It would be a gigantic upset for him to turn into a quality starter base on his career so far. Willis was considered even more of a project and he’s 5 months older than Lawrence. Hard to be that raw with very little high level experience and not be particularly young. Historically, it’s very likely that neither becomes a quality starter. Neither has shown even small glimpses of being a Russel Wilson.

Something that was unique with that draft class is how prognosticators and people everywhere online were at the very least expecting both Willis & Pickett to go in the 1st. Teams had been reaching for QBs in recent drafts, analysts and many were expecting that trend to continue.

Just look at this insider article supposedly talking to execs and scouts last year:

https://www.nfl.com/news/2022-nfl-draft-pro-execs-scouts-coaches-break-down-the-qb-class

There were plenty even thinking Corral, Ridder, Howell, & Strong were first rounders. 

Then the draft comes, and we find out pretty much every team only had Pickett as a R1 grade (if that), I imagine some didn't even have a 1st grade on a single QB.  We also traded up to the end of the 3rd for Corral so many teams passed on him for a 3rd time.  That type of deviation from predictions was soooo much greater than usual.  Especially at the QB spot.  It's usually teams having a guy pegged way higher than expected and there's a few reaches a la Daniel Jones.

So, the veil of team boards is lifted, these guys are all 3rd rounders and later.  They were these perceived potential 1st rounder talents for months on end.  That's why I think people are still so high on them compared to guys like Clausen, Grier and LeFors in the past.  The reality is they're no different than a 3rd rounder in any other drafts.      

 

 

[ForJimmy]

36 minutes ago, stbugs said:

 

Wait, did we somehow enter a twilight zone where Lawrence, Mahomes, Aikman, Manning and Allen weren’t all top 12 picks and/or started their rookie seasons? Did you see the “round selected” in my posts you quoted or were you so giddy to think up QBs who started and had bad rookie years? Damn, one of them (Trevor) I’ve posted about a hundred times in here.

I mean JFC guys we are talking about Corral being:

1) drafted in the 3rd round, not drafted first overall or in the top 12

and 2) not beating out two guys dumped by their prior teams with 1 decent year out of 7 and a guy who only made a roster because he played for Rhule

and 3) not showing any flashes and not getting much practice time at all his rookie year.

If you guys are going to use examples like that we might as well just say he’s Tom Brady’s second coming since Tom was drafted later and barely played his rookie year. Woo hoo guys, we found the next Tom Brady, time to celebrate!!!! He did make some throws in practice into a small net so effin A Cotton we have to have a multi- Super Bowl winning QB on the team.

I’m just saying labeling a QB after 1 year is pretty premature. I get you threw in the round comment too, but it still pretty pointless IMO. 

[KatsAzz]

Malik Willis was terrible, but he had no chance because the Titans were missing their three best offensive linemen, all of whom are now on injured reserve.

[mav1234]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

I’m just saying labeling a QB after 1 year is pretty premature. I get you threw in the round comment too, but it still pretty pointless IMO. 

Later round QBs still get multiple seasons in the league, and Willis was drafted for potential, not starting ability in his first year(same with Corral, fwiw).  Still a big mountain to climb to be a consistent starter of course, but I'd be astonished if he was really "Done" in Tennessee and on a different team next year (and imo this would indicate a personality clash/maturity issue).

[top dawg]

4 hours ago, stbugs said:

Did a unicorn cause you some trauma growing up or do you not get the analogy? Feel free to list out the apples to apples comparisons to Corral.

It’s funny that you say Dak is a different situation since I brought up Wilson and you mentioned Dak. It’s only when I said that Dak did what Corral did not that you backed off Dak. Here’s your quote below. 

Now it’s apples and oranges so feel free to give me one example of a QB who couldn’t beat out some bad vets his rookie year and then became a quality starter. Cousins, Dak and Wilson are out. How about Brady or Warner or Delhomme? Anyone in the last 20 years since scouting has changed a bit. The iPhone wasn’t even an idea when those guys were available in the draft.

I guessed that you missed the part where I said that a wise person takes QBs on a case by case basis.

All you're doing when you downplay the situation of Corral and don't realize the uniqueness of it due to the train wreck that was Rhule mismanagement is showing me that you're more interested in talking than listening or doing any serious analyzing. 

Matt Corral's situation was extremely unique in that he was essentially getting zero reps. I say again in a different way: Two to four reps don't mean poo. Rhule wasn't in any way giving Corral the slightest bit of consideration as first, second or even third string QB in 2022, and he acted as such in pretty much everything in regards to Corral. That wasn't the case for Wilson or Dak. 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

15 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I was talking about Corral, correct? Did I bring up Allen, Aikman, Manning, etc.? No, I didn’t because the round they were drafted in doesn’t qualify them enough for me to have said after their rookie year that they are bums. You have to be blind to think I ever made that determination about Lawrence as big a fan as I was of him and still am. I saw plenty of good flashes even with Meyer and heck I compared his rookie year to Manning with high interceptions to counter people who already gave up on the 2021 draft class.

Back to Corral, I said that based on his draft round and his rookie year that I can paint him with a wide brush. I’m amazed you can’t get that. If Corral was a first rounder, I wouldn’t have said that. It’s a pretty damn straightforward argument. Heck, feel free to re-read my posts and I’ll bet I mention Round 3+ multiple times. The only first rounder I ever mentioned was Wilson and that’s because when I’ve watched him he doesn’t appear to have “it” after two years and Corral’s preseason had the same feeling.

I liked Corral decently as a prospect. As far as I'm concerned your draft status ceases to matter for me personally after draft day. If Corral was drafted in the 1st and looked like he did in preseason I'd still be saying we need to move on. Drafting bust QBs in the 1st isn't what sinks teams. It's spending 3 years hoping he'll grow out of it that sinks teams.