Historical comparison for 2022 Carolina Panthers

[electro's horse]

Panthers entered the year with high expectations. They stumbled out of the gate, and when the dust settled they had one win, tons of losses, and were complete afterthoughts in regards to the playoffs. To make matters worse, they had lost their best offensive player. 

However, things began to stabilize and the team started to play better. They began leaning on an afterthought running back. Their line solidified, helped in part by a first rounder playing his first season at left tackle. The defense began playing very well. They were led by a young DE, and first round draft pick corner, and a veteran linebacker who was playing out of his mind. By the end of the season, the Panthers were poised to make the playoffs, and were generally considered a team that no one wanted to play. All they had to do was beat two teams: the Bucs and the Saints. 

of course that was 2004, but the similarities are....interesting.

Both teams failed to live up to expectations but for far different reasons. In 2004 the Panthers were coming off a close Super Bowl loss (less said about it the better). This year was the fabled third year of "the process" and the NFC south was prime for the taking. In 2004, the Panthers season was derailed by injuries.

In 2004, the Panthers lost Davis, Smith and Foster within the first five weeks of the season. On defense, they lost Kris Jenkins (the teams best player in 2003), and Dan Morgan was in and out with several injuries. In 2022, the Panthers have been derailed by...Matt Rhule. The panthers were in even worse shape record wise in 2004: they were 1-7 compared to 1-5. The one early win in 2002 was in Kansas City, which was most memorable for a TD pass Delhomme threw backwards while literally being spun around. 

In 2004, Steve Smith broke his leg the first game of the season against Green Bay. Thankfully Moose was in Contract Year Mode so the significance was readily apparent at the time, but Smith had just signed a new contract, was considered the future of the team, and I always like to think back on how we would have done if he'd been healthy. In 2022, the Panthers also lost their best offensive player. Instead of injury they traded him instead. 

A big part of the ship getting righted in 2004 was the offensive line. Gross switched to LT from RT due to some injuries and shuffling around, and by midway through the season things had really solidified. Today, the line has been solidified with another young high draft pick LT.

Since losing CMC, the panthers offense has played much better. Foreman is a better fit for what they're doing right now and the talent they have at the QB position. It's weird, but the team just isn't good enough right now to maximize him. Back in 2004, it was Nick Goings, who was averaging close to 100 yards a game as the Panthers lead back in the 2nd half of the season. He wasn't fancy; he just leaned his head forward and took what the line gave him. In 2022, it's Foreman and a couple other nobodies. If the circumstances were different, I think the Foreman acquisition would compare favorably to Stephen Davis...just with less broken jaws after Michael Westbrook haymakers 

The two defenses have a lot of similarities. Obviously we have Burns, Horn, and Luvu now, but back in 2004 it was Peppers, Gamble, and Fields. Burns is good, but I don't think anyone is going to confuse him for Peppers. Peppers was probably the best player on the team in 2004, and in my opinion it was his best season as a Panther. He was just unstoppable at times. Reminder, he did this all without Jenkins. Horn isn't a rookie per se, but he didn't play much his first year. Gamble was a rookie in 2004 and played lights out. Most people don't remember that his 2005 campaign was actually somewhat of a disappointment compared to his 2004, and in 2005 he would be supplanted as the "number 1" corner by Ken Lucas. I think I'd take Horn over Gamble any day, but I think he's also the Real Deal, and have always thought Gamble was overrated. 

Luvu is a heat seeking missile and one of the most fun players on defense to watch, but he's no Mark Fields. Fields finally got over his treatments for NHL about halfway through 2004. Recall that Fox and Del Rio had actually designed the defense around Fields. We all know the story; at half-time of the niners game in 2004, Fields called everyone together and told them to get their poo together. Panthers came back at halftime and went on a tear. Fields was a monster for the rest of the season. Luvu has a flare for the big play, but he's not the constant presence Fields was back then. 

And hey, look how we finish the season this year! Back in 2004, both the Bucs and the Saints were flagging. The Bucs Super Bowl window was firmly shut and they were desperate for an infusion of young talent. They ended the season losing 5/6 games and the Panthers routed them. The current Bucs are probably a season away from something like that. They're a banged up team led by a washed up tom Brady who's barely effective. They're winning close games against bad teams due to Brady's "intangibles," but this is a team clearly on the way down and staring at a likely full rebuild and new coaching staff regardless of whether or not they make the playoffs.

The saints are currently staring at a big rebuild too, without draft picks to boot. Back in 2004, they were kinda in perpetual 8-8 hell. Heading into week 17 against Carolina, they'd won three in a row to get to 7-8. The panthers were "win and they're in" and most people assumed Carolina would blow them out. But the Saints could ALSO make the playoffs if a bunch of other stuff happened.

The panthers defense came out and destroyed the saints on their first drive; I remember this because I was at the game and Delhomme came out onto the field to celebrate with the defense when they forced a punt on the Saints first possession. Unfortunately, the Saints defense just murdered the Panthers that day. Jake took 6 sacks and they couldn't get anything going. It was the kind of game where, in the stands, everyone realized very early that New Orleans had come to play and the Panthers had not. 

Of course there was another game late in 2004 towards the end of the season that ended in an overtime loss and we are absolutely not going to talk about it ever again. 

Lots of difference between the two seasons, obviously. But I don't think these teams are really heading in the same direction. In retrospect, 2004 was kinda the last best chance at a Super Bowl for that first wave of the Fox panthers. Yeah they beat Chicago in Chicago in 2005 (top 5 panthers game ever) but that team was very inconsistent. The offense was very weird (the 2nd leading receiver was Deshaun foster) and a lot of the older pieces, especially on the offensive line, started showing their wear and tear. Looking back 2004 was the best chance for a SB in the Fox era, and in my opinion would have been a better team than 2003 if not for the injuries. 

I think this Panthers season is actually closer to 2002. That season, they had a new coach, they had a lot of early growing pains, but by the end of the year they were playing very good football, and everyone on the Super Bowl team said the strong finish in 2002 propelled them into the next year. All they needed were a couple of draft picks, hit on a couple of free agent choices, and bada bing bada boom Super Bowl.

Oh yeah, that kid returning punts is actually a hall of fame player, so uh, time to step it up Shi Smith if we want this comparison to continue. 

[Ivan The Awesome]

God damn I got through that wall of text. Nice write up.

[bigdog10]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

Panthers entered the year with high expectations. They stumbled out of the gate, and when the dust settled they had one win, tons of losses, and were complete afterthoughts in regards to the playoffs. To make matters worse, they had lost their best offensive player. 

However, things began to stabilize and the team started to play better. They began leaning on an afterthought running back. Their line solidified, helped in part by a first rounder playing his first season at left tackle. The defense began playing very well. They were led by a young DE, and first round draft pick corner, and a veteran linebacker who was playing out of his mind. By the end of the season, the Panthers were poised to make the playoffs, and were generally considered a team that no one wanted to play. All they had to do was beat two teams: the Bucs and the Saints. 

of course that was 2004, but the similarities are....interesting.

Both teams failed to live up to expectations but for far different reasons. In 2004 the Panthers were coming off a close Super Bowl loss (less said about it the better). This year was the fabled third year of "the process" and the NFC south was prime for the taking. In 2004, the Panthers season was derailed by injuries.

In 2004, the Panthers lost Davis, Smith and Foster within the first five weeks of the season. On defense, they lost Kris Jenkins (the teams best player in 2003), and Dan Morgan was in and out with several injuries. In 2022, the Panthers have been derailed by...Matt Rhule. The panthers were in even worse shape record wise in 2004: they were 1-7 compared to 1-5. The one early win in 2002 was in Kansas City, which was most memorable for a TD pass Delhomme threw backwards while literally being spun around. 

In 2004, Steve Smith broke his leg the first game of the season against Green Bay. Thankfully Moose was in Contract Year Mode so the significance was readily apparent at the time, but Smith had just signed a new contract, was considered the future of the team, and I always like to think back on how we would have done if he'd been healthy. In 2022, the Panthers also lost their best offensive player. Instead of injury they traded him instead. 

A big part of the ship getting righted in 2004 was the offensive line. Gross switched to LT from RT due to some injuries and shuffling around, and by midway through the season things had really solidified. Today, the line has been solidified with another young high draft pick LT.

Since losing CMC, the panthers offense has played much better. Foreman is a better fit for what they're doing right now and the talent they have at the QB position. It's weird, but the team just isn't good enough right now to maximize him. Back in 2004, it was Nick Goings, who was averaging close to 100 yards a game as the Panthers lead back in the 2nd half of the season. He wasn't fancy; he just leaned his head forward and took what the line gave him. In 2022, it's Foreman and a couple other nobodies. If the circumstances were different, I think the Foreman acquisition would compare favorably to Stephen Davis...just with less broken jaws after Michael Westbrook haymakers 

The two defenses have a lot of similarities. Obviously we have Burns, Horn, and Luvu now, but back in 2004 it was Peppers, Gamble, and Fields. Burns is good, but I don't think anyone is going to confuse him for Peppers. Peppers was probably the best player on the team in 2004, and in my opinion it was his best season as a Panther. He was just unstoppable at times. Reminder, he did this all without Jenkins. Horn isn't a rookie per se, but he didn't play much his first year. Gamble was a rookie in 2004 and played lights out. Most people don't remember that his 2005 campaign was actually somewhat of a disappointment compared to his 2004, and in 2005 he would be supplanted as the "number 1" corner by Ken Lucas. I think I'd take Horn over Gamble any day, but I think he's also the Real Deal, and have always thought Gamble was overrated. 

Luvu is a heat seeking missile and one of the most fun players on defense to watch, but he's no Mark Fields. Fields finally got over his treatments for NHL about halfway through 2004. Recall that Fox and Del Rio had actually designed the defense around Fields. We all know the story; at half-time of the niners game in 2004, Fields called everyone together and told them to get their poo together. Panthers came back at halftime and went on a tear. Fields was a monster for the rest of the season. Luvu has a flare for the big play, but he's not the constant presence Fields was back then. 

And hey, look how we finish the season this year! Back in 2004, both the Bucs and the Saints were flagging. The Bucs Super Bowl window was firmly shut and they were desperate for an infusion of young talent. They ended the season losing 5/6 games and the Panthers routed them. The current Bucs are probably a season away from something like that. They're a banged up team led by a washed up tom Brady who's barely effective. They're winning close games against bad teams due to Brady's "intangibles," but this is a team clearly on the way down and staring at a likely full rebuild and new coaching staff regardless of whether or not they make the playoffs.

The saints are currently staring at a big rebuild too, without draft picks to boot. Back in 2004, they were kinda in perpetual 8-8 hell. Heading into week 17 against Carolina, they'd won three in a row to get to 7-8. The panthers were "win and they're in" and most people assumed Carolina would blow them out. But the Saints could ALSO make the playoffs if a bunch of other stuff happened.

The panthers defense came out and destroyed the saints on their first drive; I remember this because I was at the game and Delhomme came out onto the field to celebrate with the defense when they forced a punt on the Saints first possession. Unfortunately, the Saints defense just murdered the Panthers that day. Jake took 6 sacks and they couldn't get anything going. It was the kind of game where, in the stands, everyone realized very early that New Orleans had come to play and the Panthers had not. 

Of course there was another game late in 2004 towards the end of the season that ended in an overtime loss and we are absolutely not going to talk about it ever again. 

Lots of difference between the two seasons, obviously. But I don't think these teams are really heading in the same direction. In retrospect, 2004 was kinda the last best chance at a Super Bowl for that first wave of the Fox panthers. Yeah they beat Chicago in Chicago in 2005 (top 5 panthers game ever) but that team was very inconsistent. The offense was very weird (the 2nd leading receiver was Deshaun foster) and a lot of the older pieces, especially on the offensive line, started showing their wear and tear. Looking back 2004 was the best chance for a SB in the Fox era, and in my opinion would have been a better team than 2003 if not for the injuries. 

I think this Panthers season is actually closer to 2002. That season, they had a new coach, they had a lot of early growing pains, but by the end of the year they were playing very good football, and everyone on the Super Bowl team said the strong finish in 2002 propelled them into the next year. All they needed were a couple of draft picks, hit on a couple of free agent choices, and bada bing bada boom Super Bowl.

Oh yeah, that kid returning punts is actually a hall of fame player, so uh, time to step it up Shi Smith if we want this comparison to continue. 

Was at that game. Will never forget them trotting Kasay out there for that 60+ Yarder. We all knew how that movie was ending before it even started to play. 

[Jackie Lee]

Who had high expectations entering this year under Rhule?