Is Mcadoo developing Darnold??

[OldhamA]

1 hour ago, Sgt Schultz said:

But that has been the assumption up until now, anyway. 

The way I see this, all Darnold has done is throw his name in the mix for who that vet will be.  Up until now, it was clear the room and start over, with Corral remaining since he was not even in the room when we cleared it.

I need to see Darnold in positions to make his past bad decisions and see him NOT make them before I am willing to say he is the odds-on favorite as the vet we will need.  What we don't need is a vet who listens to the devil on his shoulder whenever he is in one of those situations.  As of now, we have kept him out of them.

Until we see that, if somebody wants to pony up more money for him, fine, move on to what is behind door #2.  Keep in mind, the goal is to replace the vet who presumably starts week one as the starter by the end of the season.  These are not the second comings of Joe Montana we are talking about, these are guys we have to keep our offense within the limits they impose.

I think you've seen that in this run - he's throwing the ball away more when nothing is on, or taking the sack when he's instantly pressured. In the past he'd try to make a hero play.

[jayboogieman]

On 12/25/2022 at 9:04 PM, LinvilleGorge said:

He's always looked good when everything goes well on the play and his first read is open. That's because he can just rely on his physical talent.

This goes for CJ Stroud as well.

[jayboogieman]

On 12/25/2022 at 11:19 PM, Rags said:

Yes...but why does the swinging need to be this year?

If you keep waiting, you'll always find an excuse to keep waiting. Examples: the next QB class looks better now, the team needs a true elite #1 receiver, the team needs another CB, the team needs a pass catching TE, the team needs another elite pass rusher, etc.

I was all in on the idea of building the roster(mostly the online) instead of taking Fields, Jones, or whoever fell in that draft. This past draft was the same for me, keep building the team. That said, it doesn't take 5 years to build a winning roster. It's time to take a chance, even if it means moving up, if there is someone the team feels is the guy.

For a purely business perspective, the fans need something to hope for and believe in, especially after all the years of losing. Nothing does that like a shiny new first round QB. Heck, the fans didn't even show up for the biggest game, that meant something, the team has played in years against the Steelers.

[Catsfan69]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

This is where it gets hard to take you seriously. So far Sam has been a decent game manager with a strong rushing game. Smith was a much better game manager than Darnold has been so far. You cherry pick one throw and act like that somehow proves he is a better QB. I’m sure Jamarcus Russell made an elite throw or two, but you have to look at the entire body of work….

If I had the technical ability to put all the big time throws together on here I would. I simply don't have the knowledge. 

 

He has made elite throws in every game this year.

The two outs to DJ.

The needle thread to DJ in the endzone.

The corner fade to dj in the endzone while being blown up.

The incredible throw to tmj that went thru his hands but was caught by his knees.

 

 

You are being dishonest if you don't include these throws that not everyone can make.nor have the guts to make

 

 

 

[LinvilleGorge]

27 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

This goes for CJ Stroud as well.

That's my concern with Stroud. I'm just not convinced he's elite unless he's surrounded by an elite team.

[jayboogieman]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's my concern with Stroud. I'm just not convinced he's elite unless he's surrounded by an elite team.

Yep. We've had that discussion before.

[Jackie Lee]

10 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's my concern with Stroud. I'm just not convinced he's elite unless he's surrounded by an elite team.

All eyes on Stroud vs Georgia this Saturday

[Basbear]

12 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's my concern with Stroud. I'm just not convinced he's elite unless he's surrounded by an elite team.

No team has come close to the WRs that bama has been landing year after year after year after year. 

[LinvilleGorge]

9 minutes ago, Basbear said:

No team has come close to the WRs that bama has been landing year after year after year after year. 

OSU has

[trueblade]

2 hours ago, Davidson Deac II said:

 

As I said, it would be slightly above what Marcus Mariota makes this year, but he has had a better year than MM.  

Just for reference: "Marcus Mariota signed a two year, $18.75 million contract with the Falcons. $6.75 million is guaranteed."

[Rags]

24 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

If you keep waiting, you'll always find an excuse to keep waiting. Examples: the next QB class looks better now, the team needs a true elite #1 receiver, the team needs another CB, the team needs a pass catching TE, the team needs another elite pass rusher, etc.

I was all in on the idea of building the roster(mostly the online) instead of taking Fields, Jones, or whoever fell in that draft. This past draft was the same for me, keep building the team. That said, it doesn't take 5 years to build a winning roster. It's time to take a chance, even if it means moving up, if there is someone the team feels is the guy.

For a purely business perspective, the fans need something to hope for and believe in, especially after all the years of losing. Nothing does that like a shiny new first round QB. Heck, the fans didn't even show up for the biggest game, that meant something, the team has played in years against the Steelers.

i'm not trying to wait for the best possible prospect though, if I were I wouldn't be okay with Richardson. I like Richardson because his ceiling is insanely high, and his running ability would stick like glue in our current offense. And if we didn't have Darnold -- Absolutely! There's no reason not to take the risk. But I also know his floor is insanely low and players rarely hit the highs they were expecting. And a bust at QB doesn't hurt me personally as a fan, poo happens, but I think it slams any potential winning in the future short, our rosters only gonna have more holes.

However for a multitude of reasons -- NFCS is weak, NFC as a whole is pretty weak with abt two rly good teams and one team that has Justin Jefferson, and I don't know if Richardson will be the best prospect on the board when we pick when April rolls around even relative to our needs (this is of course with the caveat Darnold continues his steady play). I'm not wanting to wait just to wait, I just don't think that going in on a QB this year, especially ones who have shown massive inconsistency at the collegiate level -- is the only way to improve, even if both of them likely to be high up on my Panthers Draft Board as we get closer to April. In fact personally I don't think it's gonna matter poo for dick unless we get the coaching staff right to begin with (I rly, rly want Ryans from the 9ers). 

The brand new, shiny QB is the easiest way to put butts in seats, and for that reason I can absolutely see Tepper wanting a QB, but that's not the only way. Winning. Winning puts butts in seats. That's why nobody is showing up, we're not winning consistently. And while we still have two weeks to go for the first time in 4-ish years I feel like we have a roster built to do that going into the next year. I don't think we'll be able to compete next year, but win for sure. I just want the best available talent to be added to the roster that helps us continue to win with our current style - Clock Control, Pound the Rock, Build a Lead, Bring Pressure. 

[jayboogieman]

3 minutes ago, Rags said:

And if we didn't have Darnold -- Absolutely!

But the team doesn't have Darnold after this season unless he resigns with them.

3 minutes ago, Rags said:

NFCS is weak, NFC as a whole is pretty weak

Both of those might not be the case next season. Some teams will improve in free agency and the draft.

6 minutes ago, Rags said:

I don't know if Richardson will be the best prospect on the board when we pick when April rolls around even relative to our needs (this is of course with the caveat Darnold continues his steady play)

Again, Darnold might not be on the team after the season ends. Even if the team doesn't have Richardson as the best prospect on the board, they may pick him since they need a QB.

9 minutes ago, Rags said:

I just don't think that going in on a QB this year, especially ones who have shown massive inconsistency at the collegiate level

Yeah, Richardson(since he is the example being used) has been inconsistent, but he also showed improvement over his 3 years at Florida. And that's really all you can want from a QB, improvement while he learns and grows. Not everybody gets those stacked Bama and OSU teams.

12 minutes ago, Rags said:

Winning puts butts in seats.

True, but that shiny new QB can buy you a couple years of leeway while you build a winning team that you wouldn't otherwise have.

13 minutes ago, Rags said:

I just want the best available talent to be added to the roster that helps us continue to win with our current style - Clock Control, Pound the Rock, Build a Lead, Bring Pressure. 

But the team might not have a coach that wants that same style next season. Heck, Tepper might demand the team goes straight 3-4 defense like he did with Rivera that time, again.

You're going with the assumption that Wilks, McAdoo, and Darnold will be here next year and it's too soon to know if that is the case or not. One or more probably won't be. Yeah, Wilks has done far better than Rhule ever did, but that's not saying much. The reality is that Wilks is a .500 coach at this point with what has turned out to be an easy schedule. And that shouldn't be good enough to be the coach next season. Tepper and Fitts(if still the GM) need to aim higher.

[Catsfan69]

23 minutes ago, Rags said:

i'm not trying to wait for the best possible prospect though, if I were I wouldn't be okay with Richardson. I like Richardson because his ceiling is insanely high, and his running ability would stick like glue in our current offense. And if we didn't have Darnold -- Absolutely! There's no reason not to take the risk. But I also know his floor is insanely low and players rarely hit the highs they were expecting. And a bust at QB doesn't hurt me personally as a fan, poo happens, but I think it slams any potential winning in the future short, our rosters only gonna have more holes.

However for a multitude of reasons -- NFCS is weak, NFC as a whole is pretty weak with abt two rly good teams and one team that has Justin Jefferson, and I don't know if Richardson will be the best prospect on the board when we pick when April rolls around even relative to our needs (this is of course with the caveat Darnold continues his steady play). I'm not wanting to wait just to wait, I just don't think that going in on a QB this year, especially ones who have shown massive inconsistency at the collegiate level -- is the only way to improve, even if both of them likely to be high up on my Panthers Draft Board as we get closer to April. In fact personally I don't think it's gonna matter poo for dick unless we get the coaching staff right to begin with (I rly, rly want Ryans from the 9ers). 

The brand new, shiny QB is the easiest way to put butts in seats, and for that reason I can absolutely see Tepper wanting a QB, but that's not the only way. Winning. Winning puts butts in seats. That's why nobody is showing up, we're not winning consistently. And while we still have two weeks to go for the first time in 4-ish years I feel like we have a roster built to do that going into the next year. I don't think we'll be able to compete next year, but win for sure. I just want the best available talent to be added to the roster that helps us continue to win with our current style - Clock Control, Pound the Rock, Build a Lead, Bring Pressure. 

I don't care about butts in seats. And if Tepper isn't an idiot he won't either. 

 

I care about winning.

[Rags]

5 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

But the team doesn't have Darnold after this season unless he resigns with them.

Both of those might not be the case next season. Some teams will improve in free agency and the draft.

Again, Darnold might not be on the team after the season ends. Even if the team doesn't have Richardson as the best prospect on the board, they may pick him since they need a QB.

Yeah, Richardson(since he is the example being used) has been inconsistent, but he also showed improvement over his 3 years at Florida. And that's really all you can want from a QB, improvement while he learns and grows. Not everybody gets those stacked Bama and OSU teams.

True, but that shiny new QB can buy you a couple years of leeway while you build a winning team that you wouldn't otherwise have.

But the team might not have a coach that wants that same style next season. Heck, Tepper might demand the team goes straight 3-4 defense like he did with Rivera that time, again.

You're going with the assumption that Wilks, McAdoo, and Darnold will be here next year and it's too soon to know if that is the case or not. One or more probably won't be. Yeah, Wilks has done far better than Rhule ever did, but that's not saying much. The reality is that Wilks is a .500 coach at this point with what has turned out to be an easy schedule. And that shouldn't be good enough to be the coach next season. Tepper and Fitts(if still the GM) need to aim higher.

1st & 3rd Quote - We'll likely resign him. I think he knows he needs us as much as we need him (even as a bridge) and if he doesn't stay or we don't keep him? That changes things. Absolutely QB becomes our biggest need because just Corral is asking for poo to go wrong.

2nd - Both these things might not be true -- although I expect them to be. Saints are still getting out of cap mess and have a lame duck coach with aging stars on defense and hurt ones on offense. Bucs...are probably gonna free fall. Falcons probably become more competitive next season but I don't think that it'll be too far ahead of us where we can compete. NFC is way too long to go case-by-case, but where I do see improvements for some teams (Lions, Hawks and Giants for example) I still don't see them being a case where we can't match them or compete with them. There's also only two teams I think maintain their elite presence (49ers and Eagles). 

4th - Richardson is who I mentioned, but Levis is another prospect I woldn't mind taking a risk on at this point and hoping it hits, but Richardson is my preference. I know his situation (at least this year) at FL with his WRs getting hurt and the like, and as a passer I think there's things he does that he doesn't get a lot of credit for that I can see translating. He's gotten better (though it'd...be real hard not to improve on his numbers from last season)  but it's still the NFL. It's very hard to improve as a passer, learn how to actually read progressions, improve mechanically all while getting used to how much smaller the room for error is at the NFL, and how many prospects STILL fall when they have much less to work on. And sure! You could sit him a season and start him in 2024, but if I'm looking at my starting 2024 QB...why not wait til 2024 to draft my QB? Even if I have to trade up? Even if it's not Maye or the USC kid man I'm bad w/ names. When I'm looking at Richardson I'm thinking abt how he can help in the 2023 season (which I do think is possible), like most any first round pick. 

5th - I agree to an extent that it can buy you some time (couple of years is a wild stretch) but if the #1 reason you drafted the QB is to sell tickets and hope he hits, that's not good team building. 

6th - And yes, we might go a different style next season but given what we have on this roster rn...it'd be kinda silly to go strongly against all those things. We can't play as aggressively whenever on defense. We have two good to solid pass rushers and one of them is not only in a contract year, but our best off ball LB. We can't play as conservatively because everyone not named Horn and Woods is suspect in coverage, and we don't have anyone but Burns who can pressure consistently, and even then his playstyle is entirely around speed. We still only have D.J. and our redzone offense is putrid, not to mention our starting HB is also in a contract year, so skill position is a major area that needs to be addressed and with WR contracts being NUTS rn its hard to find someone to compliment D.J., let alone supplant him. And Richardson, Darnold, whoever will still be a big ? at QB, so going pass heavy doesn't seem feasible especially if we only add some JAG and/or a back round Rook. 

In the immediate future, sticking to our strengths while we continue to try to build new ones is how we win. In fact, the two elite NFC teams do a lot similar. Good Defense, Strong O-line and run game to control the clock (w/ Philly they add in a lot of short/intermediate passes that gain a ton of RAC). Tennessee has also found success in this (though I think their window is closing and they fuged up massively. Henry older, oline bad now and traded A.J. Brown), and making it as easy for their QB as they can be by surrounding them with the best talents possible. 

I say this to say I do not expect by this time next year for this offense and style to look completely the same. I do however hope and expect these core values to be how we win next season. There's not enough sweeping enough moves we can make on the roster to change that, especially when it is a winning style of football in the NFL. If we want to contend we'll likely have to do more, but again I don't see us contending next year no matter what we do, so for now I'd think it would be best to focus on building our strengths not trying to craft a new identity. Even if it's not Wilkes, and I rly hope it's not, this should be the blueprint for the 2023 panthers, with focusing on how to improve it.