Hornets vs Pistons: The return of the Ball

[MillionDollarCam]

Obviously I’d be ticked if we had the worst record and didn’t get Wembanyama but Henderson is a nice consolation prize.

[Shocker]

1 hour ago, jayboogieman said:

The NBA doesn't work that way. See the year Anthony Davis came out when the Hornets had the worst record and ended up taking MKG since they didn't get that first pick as an example.

The Hornets first draft was 1988 and we have had the #1 pick 1 time.  (LJ)

So yeah, getting the top pick is actually hitting the lottery in term of probability 

And it isn’t like we have been very good most of the time either

Edited December 15, 2022 by Shocker

[KatsAzz]

14 hours ago, stirs said:

Wasn't the coach supposed to be a defensive specialist?

Hmmm!!! Yes!!

[MechaZain]

1 hour ago, jayboogieman said:

The NBA doesn't work that way. See the year Anthony Davis came out when the Hornets had the worst record and ended up taking MKG since they didn't get that first pick as an example.

Time for my regular reminder that the odds were much favorable back then too. The worst record had a 25% chance at the #1 pick, now the bottom three all have 14% and the bottom five aren't far behind.

I'm taking a hard look at the rest of the top 5 because expecting Wembanyama is setting yourself up for disappointment. We could lose out the rest of the way and it would still take a miracle.

 

[33inNC]

2 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

Yep. But even if the Hornets had kept the pick and used it on Duren, Cliff wouldn't play him. He would be riding the pine or playing in the G League.

This is infuriating with this team. Didn't JB do the same thing?  Why is it that other franchises actually play and develop their young guys when we let them rot on the bench (or in the G league)?

They better get a haul of good players for that trade, funny how Duran is contributing and Williams is nowhere to be found. 

[MechaZain]

15 hours ago, stirs said:

Wasn't the coach supposed to be a defensive specialist?

If nothing else I really appreciate that Clifford tells it how it is. Question is can he get these guys to buy in.

 

[jayboogieman]

1 hour ago, 33inNC said:

This is infuriating with this team. Didn't JB do the same thing?  Why is it that other franchises actually play and develop their young guys when we let them rot on the bench (or in the G league)?

They better get a haul of good players for that trade, funny how Duran is contributing and Williams is nowhere to be found. 

Player development was supposed to have been JB's strong suit and why he was hired in the first place. Somewhere along the way that fell by the wayside in favor of winning. Then JB was supposedly fired over not playing the young guys in order to win now. Unless MJ and the FO fully commit to a proper rebuild, this is going to end up happening over and over.

[jayboogieman]

2 hours ago, MechaZain said:

Time for my regular reminder that the odds were much favorable back then too. The worst record had a 25% chance at the #1 pick, now the bottom three all have 14% and the bottom five aren't far behind.

I'm taking a hard look at the rest of the top 5 because expecting Wembanyama is setting yourself up for disappointment. We could lose out the rest of the way and it would still take a miracle.

 

Yep. Honestly, I'll be shocked if the Hornets end up with a top 2 pick.

[jayboogieman]

1 hour ago, MechaZain said:

If nothing else I really appreciate that Clifford tells it how it is. Question is can he get these guys to buy in.

 

That's the best thing I've seen from Cliff so far. I don't think he can get these guys to buy in and giving Oubre and Rozier green lights to shoot all they want wasn't smart either.

[stirs]

5 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

The NBA doesn't work that way. See the year Anthony Davis came out when the Hornets had the worst record and ended up taking MKG since they didn't get that first pick as an example.

I understand the lottery, but just having a conversation about our odds or whatever

[MechaZain]

7 minutes ago, jayboogieman said:

That's the best thing I've seen from Cliff so far. I don't think he can get these guys to buy in and giving Oubre and Rozier green lights to shoot all they want wasn't smart either.

Lowkey, Cody Martin being out is a huge blow for Clifford. Martin's the type he would give extra minutes to to prove a point. JB gave them a lot of freedom on offense and it worked perfectly for LaMelo. Cliff likes to reward defensive effort with playtime but that's tough when Kelly and Terry are the only healthy scoring threats and our best defender is inconsistent PJ.

That video is interesting to me because it's basically Clifford ranting against Borregoball. You can really see how different their coaching philosophies are.

 

[jayboogieman]

8 minutes ago, MechaZain said:

Lowkey, Cody Martin being out is a huge blow for Clifford. Martin's the type he would give extra minutes to to prove a point. JB gave them a lot of freedom on offense and it worked perfectly for LaMelo. Cliff likes to reward defensive effort with playtime but that's tough when Kelly and Terry are the only healthy scoring threats and our best defender is inconsistent PJ.

That video is interesting to me because it's basically Clifford ranting against Borregoball. You can really see how different their coaching philosophies are.

 

You're probably right about Cody. JB loved him too. Sadly, Cliff hasn't even been able to get the younger guys to buy in on what he's selling. And they should be hungry for the playing time and willing to play defense.

I don't think JB's coaching philosophy is that much different on defense than Cliff's because both have had the same issues. Offensively though? Almost night and day. Cliff loves his simple high pick and roll while JB preferred the Spurs' style ball movement.

Edit: To add. The biggest defensive difference I see between them is Cliff only wants defensive boards and guys to hustle back when a shot misses where JB was fine going for offensive boards.

Edited December 15, 2022 by jayboogieman

[33inNC]

3 hours ago, jayboogieman said:

Player development was supposed to have been JB's strong suit and why he was hired in the first place. Somewhere along the way that fell by the wayside in favor of winning. Then JB was supposedly fired over not playing the young guys in order to win now. Unless MJ and the FO fully commit to a proper rebuild, this is going to end up happening over and over.

Sounds like to me we know the problem. The GOAT player is not the GOAT anything else. He need to let his people do their damn jobs. 

[33inNC]

5 hours ago, MechaZain said:

If nothing else I really appreciate that Clifford tells it how it is. Question is can he get these guys to buy in.

 

Wow, that is telling. Looks like we have a bunch of me-first selfish guys who only want to score points (looking squarely at you, Oubre).