How good is Brian Burns 2022 campaign?

[micnificent28]

9 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Nope. Stating that there is no metric(whatever that means) other than “personal bias” where Brown is better than Burns is the issue. 

  Is PFF biased? Is it a metric? What’s your criteria? Let me guess…it’s fluid. 

Nobody is saying hes excellent against the run which PFF clearly accounts for. But that doesnt take away from what we are paying him to do and thats rush the passer. He's clearly a top 10 threat at that positions as a pass rusher so thats why hes getting paid. 

[Carl Spackler]

3 minutes ago, Toomers said:

Nope. Stating that there is no metric(whatever that means) other than “personal bias” where Brown is better than Burns is the issue. 

  Is PFF biased? Is it a metric? What’s your criteria? Let me guess…it’s fluid. 

PFF is not the be-all, end-all of player evaluation. If you like, I'll be glad to pull up a myriad of posts that agree with that assessment. Aside from the sentiment within here, it's fairly common to consider PFF a guide and nothing more. 

To your second question, as to my criteria: it's fairly simple, what's the prevailing opinion of the NFL world? Do coaches, talent evaluators, even media, consider Brown a superior player to Burns? What kind of trade offers did Brown generate? Did he land in ESPN's top 25 NFL players under 25, and if so, where did he rank?

As has been stated before, I'm an Auburn fan -- just not a blind one. 

 

[Toomers]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

Because what you aren't acounting for is the cap goes up every year. the next contract will be bigger than the one before. If there is more money the next pro bowler gonna wanna be paid higher than the guy who last got the deal. Garrett will get a bigger deal if they signed on the same day but it doesnt work that way. 

Yes it matters where they are drafted because of a variety of factors. Say the year Burns came out that was an extremely good year for pass rusher. you had Bosa, Josh Allen, Farrell, rashawn Gary and then Burns followed by Sweat at 26. That class of pass rushers is very rare some years you might get 2 first round ends. so where your picking matters if your gonna land those type of talents.

It doesn’t go up enough to justify overpaying a player 10M+. Max Crosby just got 24M and his is much better than Burns. Reddick got 15M/yr this offseason. Smith 14M, Nwosu 9.5M/yr. Watt is highest at 28/yr. The Steelers have two Edge’s better than Burns. 

   What part of replacing him with a similar player who won’t be as expensive but just as productive is so hard to understand. Then using the extra money elsewhere. Then still have 3 picks that could be used in any scenario. Especially finding a QB. Saying Burns is a 16-18M/yr player is far from calling him average or mediocre. He’s just not elite. And shouldn’t be paid as such. But he’s a Panther and will be. 

[Toomers]

21 minutes ago, micnificent28 said:

Nobody is saying hes excellent against the run which PFF clearly accounts for. But that doesnt take away from what we are paying him to do and thats rush the passer. He's clearly a top 10 threat at that positions as a pass rusher so thats why hes getting paid. 

 If you are making an argument that he’s worth top DE money, you better believe his defense on 40% of snaps matters. That’s why players who are similar(like in your words Reddick) get around 15M/year. Teams don’t hand out 25-30M for one dimensional DEs. 

Edited December 20, 2022 by Toomers

[Toomers]

12 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

PFF is not the be-all, end-all of player evaluation. If you like, I'll be glad to pull up a myriad of posts that agree with that assessment. Aside from the sentiment within here, it's fairly common to consider PFF a guide and nothing more. 

To your second question, as to my criteria: it's fairly simple, what's the prevailing opinion of the NFL world? Do coaches, talent evaluators, even media, consider Brown a superior player to Burns? What kind of trade offers did Brown generate? Did he land in ESPN's top 25 NFL players under 25, and if so, where did he rank?

As has been stated before, I'm an Auburn fan -- just not a blind one. 

 

I’ve never said it was. You said there was no metric but personal bias. I showed one. From a “metric” that doesn’t have a bias. So you can save your rant. 
 

  So I should look for a list from before the season, from one man’s opinion? Over a site that actually at least grades all plays. Is that top 25 list a metric? Can’t really tell.

 

   I didn’t say you can’t see. It’s just you don’t understand what you’re seeing. 

[Carl Spackler]

29 minutes ago, Toomers said:

I’ve never said it was. You said there was no metric but personal bias. I showed one. From a “metric” that doesn’t have a bias. So you can save your rant. 
 

  So I should look for a list from before the season, from one man’s opinion? Over a site that actually at least grades all plays. Is that top 25 list a metric? Can’t really tell.

 

   I didn’t say you can’t see. It’s just you don’t understand what you’re seeing. 

I'm not ranting. I answered your question clearly and thoughtfully. To no one's surprise, you were displeased with it, but that's an issue with which you'll have to come to terms.

[KSpan]

1 hour ago, Carl Spackler said:

We've reached the point of Panthers fandom where unless you think Brian Burns is a below-replacement level, mediocre defensive lineman, you're an unintelligent fan

No one has said Burns is below replacement level or mediocre, insinuating that he's a run of the mill player - these comments are ridiculous. What has been said is that what he does and doesn't bring to the table is worth risking for a haul of draft picks that can yield even more overall talent alongside avoidance of a massive salary that could provide for even more talent, particularly since the Rams are likely to be mediocre or worse in coming years.

The hyperbole and nonsensical judgments are silly.

[Toomers]

2 minutes ago, Carl Spackler said:

I'm not ranting. I answered your question clearly and thoughtfully. To no one's surprise, you were displeased with it, but that's an issue with which you'll have to come to terms.

You dismissed a “metric” with no personal bias. Wanted to show posts from people on here to prove your point. Only to offer a vague list from one person taken before the year. Wonder who was on that? 
 

   The only one displeased is you and your “we should overpay him because….reasons” theory about a player on your favorite team. 

[Basbear]

@Toomers lets say you pick or rank the following. 

current reddick contract- 3 yr 45 mill

best guess brain burns- 5yr 140 mill

best guess luvu- 3 yr 24 mill

 

all have the similar bonus% breakdown.

 

anyone else feel free.......i already know, no more thinking needed...

[SmokinwithWilly]

47 minutes ago, KSpan said:

No one has said Burns is below replacement level or mediocre, insinuating that he's a run of the mill player - these comments are ridiculous. What has been said is that what he does and doesn't bring to the table is worth risking for a haul of draft picks that can yield even more overall talent alongside avoidance of a massive salary that could provide for even more talent, particularly since the Rams are likely to be mediocre or worse in coming years.

The hyperbole and nonsensical judgments are silly.

Exactly. You have to weigh 

Burns at a cost of 30m per year(estimated) for 4 or 5 years, 2-3 of which will be spent during rebuild 

Or 

Pick 36 atm, 24 1st and 25 1st from a declining team and 30m per season to add an edge rusher and other positions depending on cap spent on said edge rusher. 

It's just personal opinion of which is more valuable overall. Personally, I think the team benefits more from the latter. No hate towards Burns at all. 

[Wolfcop]

No way Burns is worth what we turned down for him. He disappears against the run, and sometimes in pass rush. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

2 minutes ago, Basbear said:

@Toomers lets say you pick or rank the following. 

current reddick contract- 3 yr 45 mill

best guess brain burns- 5yr 140 mill

best guess luvu- 3 yr 24 mill

 

all have the similar bonus% breakdown.

 

anyone else feel free.......i already know, no more thinking needed...

Reddick, Luvu, Burns in that order. Big contract for a team rebuilding. 

[Basbear]

3 minutes ago, SmokinwithWilly said:

Reddick, Luvu, Burns in that order. Big contract for a team rebuilding. 

I concur, do you think the figures are fair/accurate enough? would you change any?

 

[Toomers]

29 minutes ago, Basbear said:

@Toomers lets say you pick or rank the following. 

current reddick contract- 3 yr 45 mill

best guess brain burns- 5yr 140 mill

best guess luvu- 3 yr 24 mill

 

all have the similar bonus% breakdown.

 

anyone else feel free.......i already know, no more thinking needed...

I would take a 3rd round comp pick before paying Burns that much. 
 

  Reddick and Luvu armed/would be good deals. Both are much better players than I ever thought they were. And you could have both, plus 5M more for what Burns would make.