Person looks at Mayfield, Rhule and "revisionist history"

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Lol, how am I revising history? What narrative do I have? You stated “Joe may have…” and all I said is that I am skeptical of after someone’s fired reports because it’s typical in any job. I literally said there can be some truths and some CYA throw the person under the bus who isn’t in the organization anymore. Local reporters are often mouth pieces to an organization because they want to keep receiving whispers to be the first to report and have inside access. We don’t know if Joe knew before the Rhule interview or not. Your words state that you don’t know either.

I’d just be interested in hearing what you think my narrative is because if you actually read my posts I have basically not taken a stance and said you and I won’t know what really happened. I’ll give an example, it was rumored (and you often provide many rumors/stories) that Rhule had to cede power to Fitterer this off-season which is why he was given a lot of kudos for getting Mayfield at such a great value. It sure seems like that narrative has done a 180, hence my skepticism of someone leaving potentially getting thrown under the bud because they are gone. Did Rhule force the Mayfield acquisition or did Fitterer take advantage of Tepper forcing Rhule to accept changes or was it a joint call? I’m OK saying I don’t know and I don’t 100% trust an article put out in response to Rhule’s interview.

Again, please do quote the parts of my replies where I state “my narrative” on what happened. I’m pretty sure this is when you’ll start saying you already answered me and other deflections.

Don't need to explain your narrative since you already give me the favor of alluding to it in your second (massive) paragraph.

Person, Charles Robinson, John Ellis, Ellis Williams and Mike Kaye have all stated the same or similar things. The consensus is pretty much universal that it was Matt Rhule making the quarterback decisions.

But hey, those guys with actual sources sure aren't fooling you now, are they?

Edited December 6, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

Just now, stbugs said:

Pretty much what I expected, I alluded to my narrative, SMH. I’m skeptical because I’ve experienced differences in opinions when people leave jobs. This article is gospel to you but to me it’s a response to Rhule’s interview. Both are trying to save face and my narrative is that I don’t know what happened and both sides are presenting their own truths to try and look better. Yep, that’s a really hard stance I’m taking. I sure do love Rhule and wish he was still here.  

No, but you do wish Fitterer was really to blame for stuff so he could get fired too. Hell, you seemed practically giddy about the idea not that long ago.

People reporting from actual sources has kinda put a damper on that though

[top dawg]

46 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Exactly. That acquisition was lauded in here and I seem to remember a lot of kudos to the current staff not Rhule. I have no idea who made the call but the reduced salary and 5th round pick were almost universally loved. I’m pretty sure I, @kungfoodude and some others weren’t for the deal because we didn’t see us making the playoffs (didn’t see the Brady implosion) or see Mayfield as our future so we’d rather let Sam lead us to a top pick even though it wasn’t bad value compared to Sam’s awful deal.

My thing is that more than a few people were putting Baker on a pedestal (sometimes based on laughable evidence), just totally overlooking his obvious deficiencies in their zest to label him as the best thing going, much like Rhule did. People here did it, and the writers did it. Only a few were calling him on his bullshit then, but everyone wants to heap on now. 

As for me, I didn't hate the deal, as much as I hated what it ultimately meant for Corral. The fact is, the deal wasn't bad from a real capital or a draft perspective. I think that it ultimately led to the serious stunting of Corral's development, maybe even irreparably (but hopefully not). As for how it ultimately affected our draft position, Baker's presence actually didn't do a thing, and may have even helped. 

Honestly, it's time to move on from Rhule in every respect. That experience and the Baker experiment here are over. I'm sure that his next coach and the corresponding fan base will be much more realistic in regards to how they judge and value Baker relative to their own situation and QB room.

Edited December 6, 2022 by top dawg

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, top dawg said:

My thing is that more than a few people were putting Baker on a pedestal (sometimes based on laughable evidence), just totally overlooking his obvious deficiencies in their zest to label him as the best thing going, much like Rhule did. People here did it, and the writers did it. Only a few were calling him on his bullshit then, but everyone wants to heap on now. 

As for me, I didn't hate the deal, as much as I hated what it ultimately meant for Corral. The fact is, the deal wasn't bad from a real capital or a draft perspective. I think that it ultimately led to the serious stunting of Corral's development, maybe even irreparably (but hopefully not). As for how it ultimately affected our draft position, Baker's presence actually didn't do a thing, and may have even helped. 

Honestly, it's time to move on from Rhule in every respect. That experience and the Baker experiment here are over. I'm sure that his next coach and the corresponding fan base will be much more realistic in regards to how they judge and value Baker relative to their own situation and QB room.

Said elsewhere, I wasn't a huge fan of the Mayfield trade but I went into it expecting both more attitude and better on field performance than we ultimately got.

I'd probably have been okay with him being more of an ass if he'd have performed in the games.

Edited December 6, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

the Baker add was the only QB gamble that was actually a sound business move.  Because he was dirt cheap.  And that’s what you should do with bad QBs you want to gamble on…..so him not working out isn’t a big deal. 

I think it is safe to say that was still a Rhule move.   In real time it was reported the front office was split on Baker.   Which implied the split was Rhule/Fitt.  And Baker fit the win now/show something scenario that only Rhule was in

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

Exactly. That acquisition was lauded in here and I seem to remember a lot of kudos to the current staff not Rhule. I have no idea who made the call but the reduced salary and 5th round pick were almost universally loved. I’m pretty sure I, @kungfoodude and some others weren’t for the deal because we didn’t see us making the playoffs (didn’t see the Brady implosion) or see Mayfield as our future so we’d rather let Sam lead us to a top pick even though it wasn’t bad value compared to Sam’s awful deal.

No, I was fine with the Mayfield trade at a stated price point because the price was low. It didn't have any real impact other than a few mil on the cap and a 5th round pick.

Leaps and bounds better than the terrible Darnold trade. 

Now, the obvious problem with any of this was that we took so long to fix the real issue, which was Matt Rhule.

[Bear Hands]

Bottom line--I think most of us thought we were at least getting a Delhomme-lite/Hasselback level guy and for what we paid, it wasn't anything too bad.  He had shown in his career to be adequate.  Not a complete mess, but he showed very little ability to even sustain a field goal level drive.  

We experienced something much worse than expected, he couldn't throw basic out routes or consistently arc over lineman.   At least he got Rhule canned more quickly than expected.

A 5th rounder is nothing, he is gone, Rhule is gone.  Let's get the sanitizer.

[RenoCarolina]

12 hours ago, AU-panther said:

So whose idea was it to get Sam? 

you'll have to wait for the next firing

[CRA]

12 hours ago, AU-panther said:

So whose idea was it to get Sam? 

I think that was pretty well documented.  Phil Snow birthed the thought.  Matt Rhule then got on board. 

Fitt IMO still should of lost his job for picking up the 5th year sight unseen.  

[Mr. Scot]

41 minutes ago, stbugs said:

I would have rather had our pick of GM’s and coaches rather than Rhule’s GM choice picking our next coach, yes, but that isn’t my narrative and it’s over. That’s your bias rather than reading what I actually wrote. Fitterer isn’t getting replaced and Rhule is gone. I’m not the one who hasn’t moved on.

Riiiight

[RenoCarolina]

5 hours ago, top dawg said:

So many people were so wrong about Baker, and it wasn't just Rhule. I think that it would behoove many to just let the Revisionist History Express ride on by. 

exactly.  wasted energy on bad energy.

I really don't keep track on who was right or wrong going back months or even years ago on an obscure fan message board.  That is why I am so comfortable with my annual undefeated predictions!  Also why I am genuinely disappointed every time I check my lottery ticket numbers.

 

[Mr. Scot]

33 minutes ago, CRA said:

I think that was pretty well documented.  Phil Snow birthed the thought.  Matt Rhule then got on board. 

Fitt IMO still should of lost his job for picking up the 5th year sight unseen.  

I always cringe at that phrase. Any suggestion that "this should happen solely because of that" is kind of dumb because it ignores the body of work.

That said, all reports confirm the fifth year option was Fitterer's decision so he owns it.

Of course, St. Bugs told me I need to be skeptical of these reports. Somehow I think he's gonna find a reason to believe this one though

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I always cringe at that phrase. Any suggestion that "this should happen solely because of that" is kind of dumb because it ignores the body of work.

That said, all reports confirm the fifth year option was Fitterer's decision so he owns it.

Of course, St. Bugs told me I need to be skeptical of these reports. Somehow I think he's gonna find a reason to believe this one though

well in theory it shouldn't happen only because of that..... 

I'd equate it to dating someone.  They get drunk, take off their clothes and start dancing on the table at Applebees.  You probably shouldn't keep dating them.   And you shouldn't date them because that one moment.....was a red flag and foreshadowing of what will come later.  

Everyone is going to make mistakes.  Especially in the lotto that is acquiring people to play football.  That move by our GM just seems to be something different and a giant red flag.  That's not smart business and not your run of the mill error IMO. 

[BrianS]

Baker wasn't good here.  In fact, he was at his all time worst.  He has to own that.

Rhule did not put Baker into an offense tailored to his skill set.  He - along with his "rockstar" OC - has to own that.

Our offense has been historically awful since the start of the Rhule era.  Is it QB?  Is it coach?  I'd say it was both.  Trying to place full blame on either is pointless.