If Darnold plays well,do they keep him around?

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

And what facts do you stand on that Corral will be starting,

I've never said he would start.  I said he would be given every opportunity to compete for the position.  You're the one that says he has 99.99% chance of never playing,

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I've never said he would start.  I said he would be given every opportunity to compete for the position.  You're the one that says he has 99.99% chance of never playing,

If/when we draft a first round qb he is not going to be giving a chance to compete.  Thats not how it works in the nfl.

[mav1234]

42 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

In our current draft position we are most likely not getting Stroud or Young.   I don't think we are done winning.   This puts us into the 2nd tier of QBs that have as many question marks as Corral does.   It also puts us in a position to draft another need or trade down.

None of us know what the new coaching staff will see in Corral, whether good or bad.  Everyone assumes that it is automatic that the new coach will draft a QB.   Once again, it isn't going to be Stroud or Young.   

The injury was a freak injury.  It isn't a shoulder injury, it was an ankle.  People act as if it is come career ending injury.  I also believe it was made to be worse to get him on IR but that's just an opinion.  

I also don't believe it will be a "Mayfield" competition where the QB is preselected and it's just for show.  

I look forward to seeing him compete for the job.

Corral has significantly more question marks than many of the 2nd tier QBs.... His durability seems to be an enormous problem, so he will have to really outplay guys I think.  It isn't his first injury in his career, and he looked bad in his first preseason. If a rookie looks even just as good they're more likely to start IMO. 

I would be astonished if we don't draft a QB since Fitt has said he thinks you go for a QB every draft before.  It won't liekly be someone penciled in as a starter off the bat but I think they're likely to enter camp considered above Corral. He'll have a chance to prove otherwise, sure.

[Wundrbread33]

23 minutes ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

His traits being that his throwing mechanics are terrible. Pocket awareness is non existent. And based on the offenses that he has been a part of, which is all we have to go by at this point, shows that he has a minimal knowledge of the game. Most colleges do not run an advanced offensive game compared to the NFL level. I don't want to rule him out, I hope he does good. Saves us money, and draft picks. I just don't see it based on the facts and history of the guy at the position..I'm sorry that hurt you and the other guy commenting feelings. Footwork, Mechanics, Knowledge of the game all seem lackluster. He does seem to have the mindset so there is that. But that has taken him this far, the rest will be determined how much he can retain and put into play.

Maybe he will get more of an opportunity bc it is fair to say he didn't get the reps. But at the same time those reps had to be earned and he has been able to do that as of yet. We shall see, if he ever even steps on the field in a starting role, temporarily or permanent, just seems unlikely.

Just not sure why so many are obsessed with a below average QB, that really hasn't shown much. But hey, go off. It really doesn't make a difference to me. I just want to see competent QB play and a glorified Will Greer is what he strikes me off as. And Greer had a better college career and has managed to make the field on game days LOL 

Well we are getting closer to specifics.

 

You think his throwing mechanics are terrible. How so? What do you mean?

 

What about his footwork is lackluster?

 

What makes you think his knowledge of the game is lackluster? Is this based solely on the RPO offense he ran in college?

 

Not grilling you, just want specifics so I can have further understanding of your opinion.

[DaveThePanther2008]

8 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Corral has significantly more question marks than many of the 2nd tier QBs.... His durability seems to be an enormous problem, so he will have to really outplay guys I think.  It isn't his first injury in his career, and he looked bad in his first preseason. If a rookie looks even just as good they're more likely to start IMO. 

I would be astonished if we don't draft a QB since Fitt has said he thinks you go for a QB every draft before.  It won't liekly be someone penciled in as a starter off the bat but I think they're likely to enter camp considered above Corral. He'll have a chance to prove otherwise, sure.

Injury prone is a bit steep but I get your point.

As our draft position drops with more wins, which I do believe we'll win more games.  The chance of drafting a QB in round one diminishes.  Possible round two or trade up.  I doubt trading up due to our limited draft capital.   I could see us trading down and getting one later in round one.  

@Jackie Lee Posted that he is already on his way to recovery and should be ready for OTAs.  I have never said he would be our starter, I've only contended that he would be given every opportunity to win the job.  We saw what happens when a HC makes the decision prior to a real competition.   I've only said he'd compete.

Yes, he looked absolutely terrible in his first preseason game but was performing much better in the 2nd preseason game before his injury.  That has to be a wash though.  Anybody that gets minimal Reps in preseason is not going to look good, especially a rookie.  Anyone that contents that his training camp and preseason are any indication of how well he can play is fooling themselves.  Rhule screwed us.  We talked extensively about this in camp and preseason.  His treatment of Corral was criminal.

BTW, I appreciate a real conversation instead of someone just spouting out that Corral has zero chance.  Thanks

[Wundrbread33]

10 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Corral has significantly more question marks than many of the 2nd tier QBs.... His durability seems to be an enormous problem, so he will have to really outplay guys I think.  It isn't his first injury in his career, and he looked bad in his first preseason. If a rookie looks even just as good they're more likely to start IMO. 

I would be astonished if we don't draft a QB since Fitt has said he thinks you go for a QB every draft before.  It won't liekly be someone penciled in as a starter off the bat but I think they're likely to enter camp considered above Corral. He'll have a chance to prove otherwise, sure.

I like Corral a lot and still want us to draft a QB. We have to get the position right. We can’t rely only on Corral. Cam was fine coming back from lisfranc, but it’s a tricky injury.

 

I do think the “Corral has injury history” is a bit overblown. He had no injury history until he twisted his ankle late in the college season, and then hurt it in the bowl game. Lisfranc is a flukey type injury too. Just unlucky. So Corral has been durable, but has had an unlucky last year.

 

Maybe he’s hurt all the time moving forward, but historically he has been durable and played through pain. Lisfranc seems more the exception, not the rule. Just my opinion though. 

[Diehardpanth02]

2 hours ago, Wundrbread33 said:

Well we are getting closer to specifics.

 

You think his throwing mechanics are terrible. How so? What do you mean?

 

What about his footwork is lackluster?

 

What makes you think his knowledge of the game is lackluster? Is this based solely on the RPO offense he ran in college?

 

Not grilling you, just want specifics so I can have further understanding of your opinion.

Listen the dude is talented. You don't make it to the pros and not be at least somewhat talented. I'm not going to sit and pick him apart bc there is a lot to like. He seems to plant that front foot, and rely on his arm strength quite a bit, and coming from an RPO offense, and to the preseason it seems to take him a bit to long to move on reads. Those things couple together can spell trouble if he's indecisive, foot gets planted and he's staring down a read..he showed this in the preseason as I mentioned. He seems indecisive, and a bit paranoid in the pocket. Which may loosen with reps. I just haven't seen enough to bank on him, and that's all I've been saying all along. You can't bank on ifs at the position. He needs time to grow. And we don't have time. So  if he pans out who knows, I just think it's a very small chance it's here.

Edited December 2, 2022 by Diehardpanth02

[SCMunnerlyn1]

Of the 3 id keep Pj,Darnold,Mayfield in that order to bridge the gap while we see how Corral or whoever we draft devlops.

I felt Darnold was playing relatively well before the ATL injury last year though. 

[Wundrbread33]

1 hour ago, Diehardpanth02 said:

Listen the dude is talented. You don't make it to the pros and not be at least somewhat talented. I'm not going to sit and pick him apart bc there is a lot to like. He seems to plant that front foot, and rely on his arm strength quite a bit, and coming from an RPO offense, and to the preseason it seems to take him a bit to long to move on reads. Those things couple together can spell trouble if he's indecisive, foot gets planted and he's staring down a read..he showed this in the preseason as I mentioned. He seems indecisive, and a bit paranoid in the pocket. Which may loosen with reps. I just haven't seen enough to bank on him, and that's all I've been saying all along. You can't bank on ifs at the position. He needs time to grow. And we don't have time. So  if he pans out who knows, I just think it's a very small chance it's here.

Thanks for clarifying. It seems that most of your evaluation is on preseason. That being the case, I understand your concerns. 

It comes down to how much weight we put on those 3 quarters ultimately, and how thoroughly we evaluate his performance in context.

I place more weight on evaluation of his SEC film, vs. the preseason. I just don’t think he was put in a position to be properly evaluated.

 

A proper, thorough evaluation of his ability would be including what he did in the SEC and the preseason (in context).

 

Regarding pro traits; his arm strength, short and mid accuracy, lightning release, footspeed/twitch to evade the free rusher, improvisation, and multiple throwing angles are all there. 
 

Preseason he looked like a different player/college, but all signs (in my opinion) point heavily to inexperience, and lack of reps, along with unfamiliarity with the surrounding fringe players. 
 

But maybe he sucks. Time will tell. The mental aspect of the game is what breaks most dudes at this level. He at least has everything you want physically besides being 6’5”.

[mav1234]

3 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

BTW, I appreciate a real conversation instead of someone just spouting out that Corral has zero chance.  Thanks

Same.  People get too personal around here. No reason to be, none of us know the future and we're all just guessing. We can disagree and be reasonable about topics like the future of a player IMO.

[mav1234]

3 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

I place more weight on evaluation of his SEC film, vs. the preseason. I just don’t think he was put in a position to be properly evaluated.

A proper, thorough evaluation of his ability would be including what he did in the SEC and the preseason (in context).

I don't think the preseason includes just games, though. He also failed to really challenge either of our shitty QBs in any real way, either in media reports or generally.

BUT given the HC, I basically give him a pass there. Although I think he has a high hill to climb I agree on paper / some college film he has most of the tools.  But the NFL is a different mental game than college. So we will see.

Edit: also see your point on injuries but when you're injured that often in 2 seasons it does stick for a bit...

Edited December 2, 2022 by mav1234

[Wundrbread33]

4 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

I don't think the preseason includes just games, though. He also failed to really challenge either of our shitty QBs in any real way, either in media reports or generally.

BUT given the HC, I basically give him a pass there. Although I think he has a high hill to climb I agree on paper / some college film he has most of the tools.  But the NFL is a different mental game than college. So we will see.

Edit: also see your point on injuries but when you're injured that often in 2 seasons it does stick for a bit...

Bouncing back from lisfranc is really my only concern with him. That poo can end careers. He’s young so hopefully that plays to his advantage. 
 

It’s so weird we had two QB’s get the same injury against the same team, in preseason. 

[DaveThePanther2008]

12 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

He also failed to really challenge either of our shitty QBs in any real way

I don't think he failed to challenge them.  He wasn't given an opportunity to challenge them.  It's kind of hard to challenge when your only opportunities are with the 3rd string and below offense.  A true challenge would have been giving him time with the 1st and 2nd team offense.  Which he rarely, if any, got. 

[mav1234]

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I don't think he failed to challenge them.  He wasn't given an opportunity to challenge them.  It's kind of hard to challenge when your only opportunities are with the 3rd string and below offense.  A true challenge would have been giving him time with the 1st and 2nd team offense.  Which he rarely, if any, got. 

Maybe. I feel that he still didn't make the most of his opportunities. Still, I really do give him a pass for the most part on that because of Rhule. If I thought he'd really had a realistic shot I'd be much harsher on him.