All the fans that want to tank, you guys are all in on Stroud?

[Varking]

17 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

OK, but that school had Joe Burrow, and decided to go with Haskins.  That is the school, not the player.  The reason?  Burrow did not fit their system as well.  If an elite NFL QB does not fit the system, then the school is recruiting for their system and that does not necessarily equate to an ideal NFL QB--that is the school and the kind of players that school recruits. 

OSU usually has the better OL, the better WRs, TEs, and the better Defense.  I would say that is true 10 games a season.  There may not be a better system in which to play QB--maybe Alabama or Georgia compares.

And are we really going to measure a player on 5 games--but I agree that Fields is starting to show that he has broken the OSU curse.

 

And Georgia went with Fromm over Fields. Bama wasn’t properly utilizing Hurts and had him playing over Tua for most of the year. It took Dabo 4 games to figure out Lawrence was better than the kid he replaced. It took Dan Mullen years to figure out Trask was better than Franks. Now Dabo is sticking with DJ when he isn’t doing it. Even Rattler was starting over Caleb Williams. Chris Leak was starting over The Golden Calf of Bristol. This isn’t a unique thing in college football. This happens all over, everywhere. 
 

Burrow fit the system just fine. When he was in he put up numbers. He went to LSU and did just ok. Then his second year there with Joe Brady he boomed. 
 

And as far as Fields, yes. When I see marked improvement in decision making from year 1 to year 2, and a no talent team around him has a stretch of five straight games averaging 30 points to lead the NFL during that stretch I’ll say there’s for sure improvement showing that there is no such thing as an OSU QB curse. That’s a very weak form of “analysis”.

[X-Clown]

7 hours ago, GoobyPls said:

Yeah it makes a lot of sense to compare Texas tech QBs who rarely get drafted to Ohio state QBs who get drafted every other year and never succeed

 

 

It's the same idea - you're saying to scout schools rather than players. Aaron Rodgers is a perfect example, most of his fall on draft day was because he was viewed as a product of Jeff Tedford's system who was known for having QBs that put up video game numbers in college then sucked in the pros. I hope our scouts do a little more due dilligence then simplifying it to your level.

 

[MHS831]

Burrow went to LSU when he could not beat out Haskins and won a title.  Josh Allen is from Wyoming.  Lamarr Jackson?  Louisville. Jones? Duke.  There are some Bama QBs starting to make some noise, but not as much noise as one might expect. 

[Varking]

4 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Personally, I think there should be a "buyer beware" tag on any QB from Bama, Clemson (until recently), Georgia, Ohio State etc. because they have the better players around them.  They rarely play from behind.  They have WRs who get open and make plays.  They are auditioning in ideal circumstances in which they have all the advantages. 

You think LSU with Burrow didn’t have guys running open? You think Herbert at Oregon didn’t have guys running open? 
 

Watch tape on any of the games best quarterbacks and for every wow throw where they fit the ball into a tight window there are 5-6 throws where the WR on their first read is 2-3 yards open when the throw leaves the QBs hand in college. It’s much harder being a college CB than a college WR. 

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, X-Clown said:

It's the same idea - you're saying to scout schools rather than players. Aaron Rodgers is a perfect example, most of his fall on draft day was because he was viewed as a product of Jeff Tedford's system who was known for having QBs that put up video game numbers in college then sucked in the pros. I hope our scouts do a little more due dilligence then simplifying it to your level.

 

It is sort of a Chicken or Egg thing--the school recruits a player that best fits their system--not always a good fit for the NFL--but the NFL is starting to adapt.  If a school has top QB talent and they are drafted early every year and they all bust, there is a reason that these players' stock is high--I mean, give me the OSU stable of RBs and WRs--the OL--the fact that every game you are 10+ point favorites--perfect conditions.  It is a good argument--but you are not measuring the school, you are measuring the variables in which that player performs.

[X-Clown]

7 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Burrow went to LSU when he could not beat out Haskins and won a title.  Josh Allen is from Wyoming.  Lamarr Jackson?  Louisville. Jones? Duke.  There are some Bama QBs starting to make some noise, but not as much noise as one might expect. 

You're really using Daniel Jones as an example of someone that's good, but downplaying Tua and Hurts' success? 

[MHS831]

2 minutes ago, Varking said:

You think LSU with Burrow didn’t have guys running open? You think Herbert at Oregon didn’t have guys running open? 
 

Watch tape on any of the games best quarterbacks and for every wow throw where they fit the ball into a tight window there are 5-6 throws where the WR on their first read is 2-3 yards open when the throw leaves the QBs hand in college. It’s much harder being a college CB than a college WR. 

Of course they did- but watch TV on National Signing day and count the Alabamas and Ohio States.  If you have better players, it makes the QB better--not debatable.  So you are saying, 'Since Oregon and LSU had good players too..."  The difference is slight, but there is a difference.  Are you saying that Oregon and LSU have equal or better teams than Alabama, OSU, and Georgia?  I am just saying that you'd think the best schools would produce the best QBs--but when you see them play in perfect conditions with the advantage.

How did Stroud do when he fell behind vs. Michigan?  He was not used to that.  OSU was favored by a TD, and they had no answers.  He was not used to playing from behind.  He was not used to facing a D with their ears pinned back.  He had a good game--don't get me wrong--but he also had 2 picks. 

I hope you are right.  We need a good young QB--my point is simply buyer beware if you are shopping for an OSU qb.  They are used to ideal conditions. 

[X-Clown]

17 minutes ago, MHS831 said:

Of course they did- but watch TV on National Signing day and count the Alabamas and Ohio States.  If you have better players, it makes the QB better--not debatable.  So you are saying, 'Since Oregon and LSU had good players too..."  The difference is slight, but there is a difference.  Are you saying that Oregon and LSU have equal or better teams than Alabama, OSU, and Georgia?  I am just saying that you'd think the best schools would produce the best QBs--but when you see them play in perfect conditions with the advantage.

How did Stroud do when he fell behind vs. Michigan?  He was not used to that.  OSU was favored by a TD, and they had no answers.  He was not used to playing from behind.  He was not used to facing a D with their ears pinned back.  He had a good game--don't get me wrong--but he also had 2 picks. 

I hope you are right.  We need a good young QB--my point is simply buyer beware if you are shopping for an OSU qb.  They are used to ideal conditions. 

Burrow was throwing every game to Justin Jefferson AND Jamarr Chase during his title season - who are now 2 of the best 5 receivers in the NFL. Terrace Marshall as well. That team was loaded all around.

I'll forgive Stroud for a loss when his defense allowed 530 yards with 250 on the ground.

 

Edited November 29, 2022 by X-Clown

[PghPanther]

Nope..........for all the raving about him as a QB his skill sets seem to be greatly compromised when the pressure is put on him and that's at the college level.

I just could imagine the difficultly he would have adjusting to the speed of pressure at an NFL level.................he's a pass in my book, time to look at others. 

Good Greif even that Michigan backup looked better than him in that recent Ohio State/ U of Michigan game. 

[jayboogieman]

1 hour ago, d-dave said:

But Young is also small which won't work out well for him when he starts getting flattened by 300lb NFL DLs.

He's already getting flattened by 300lb future NFL DLs

[Shocker]

For those concerned with QBs from certain schools…it would be difficult to find a QB U.  All these schools have busts more than guys that hit.  Shying away from a QB because of his school is shortsighted IMO.  
 

The NFL team they are drafted to is more important.  Most of these very high picks go to bad teams with bad coaching and supporting casts.  

Edited November 29, 2022 by Shocker

[ForJimmy]

1 hour ago, MHS831 said:

Personally, I think there should be a "buyer beware" tag on any QB from Bama, Clemson (until recently), Georgia, Ohio State etc. because they have the better players around them.  They rarely play from behind.  They have WRs who get open and make plays.  They are auditioning in ideal circumstances in which they have all the advantages. 

I don't really agree with associating players with their schools as most of these schools have different coaches/different offenses.  Alabama has evolved from a defensive powerhouse with game manager QBs like McCarron, McElroy, Croyle etc.., but lately they have been an offensive team with Hurts, Tua, Mac, and now Young.  OSU went form Tressel's power running gimmicky offense to more of a layered passing offense with Day which is where Haskins and Fields came from.  It's why they actually got drafted in the first vs every other OSU QB that went later or even switched positions.  

I do agree with the "buyer beware" comment about them having absolutely loaded teams.  A lot of these guys will struggle for a moment as rookies because they aren't experienced or equipped to play through adversity.  

[Shocker]

About Justin Fields…I watch a lot of football but I can’t name a WR or the RB starting for Chicago right now.  Just can’t 

[Captroop]

14 hours ago, X-Clown said:

Peyton Manning went three times? Eli Manning? Matt Stafford? 

This is a terrible argument.

You're talking about two brothers who were drafted 2 decades ago, and a guy who only won a Super Bowl as a *GASP* re-tread QB for another team. If you're making an argument in favor of #1 QBs, I think Stafford is the worst example you can cite. A decade of doing nothing for the team that drafted him, and winning the Super Bowl for someone else. That's pretty much exactly what I don't want to happen.

And technically, Eli never won a super bowl for the team that drafted him at #1 either (Chargers). If you're holding up Eli Manning, you're really making a case for trading multiple first round picks for a franchise QB.

Just a terrible, terrible argument you've made.