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Ellis Williams. Char observer on top 4 QBs Note, This is not in depth

Varking

By Varking,
in Carolina Panthers

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Whoever we draft we need to have that type of plan. I don't want to repeat the "we have Cam Newton and he can carry the offense so let's just focus on D" mistake again.

Lots of guys took a little time or sat for their first year. I think the fan stress is on the 3 year QB carousel and the Corral injury that negated his whole rookie year growth. That's obviously a whole other topic. 

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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Just now, Jackie Lee said:

Lots of guys took a little time or sat for their first year. I think the fan stress is on the 3 year QB carousel and the Corral injury that negated his whole rookie year growth. That's obviously a whole other topic. 

Well as far as plans go, if we're going to take a guy high in the draft, the plan needs to be to develop him and build around him.

If we're just gonna put a guy through his rookie year and then discard him because he wasn't an instant All Pro, we might as well hire Jon Gruden for head coach because that's what he did.

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LinvilleGorge Grand Master

LinvilleGorge

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11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Maybe not in those terms, but the argument that you look at a guys physical characteristics first because "you can teach the other stuff" is being made on a daily basis.

Reality: That approach fails more often than it succeeds.

Now the most common response I get to that is people saying "oh well you just want some unathletic pocket passer". Wrong. I want a guy who is a capable passer. Whether or not he's athletic is the part I don't give a sh-t about.

I honestly don't think I've seen anyone make that argument either. You need both. I think what you've seen argued is that Richardson has very intriguing talent IF you think he can be developed and you've interpreted that as thinking everything CAN be coached up.

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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25 minutes ago, Kentucky Panther said:

Is this a serious question? Levis killed him head to head 

Wait… do you evaluate QBs based on their “head to head” where they don’t play against the same defenses? 

They have four common opponents. Georgia, Vanderbilt, Miz and Tennessee. 

1190 yards passing, 9 touchdowns total, 6 passing, 3 Interceptions.

vs

583 yards passing, 4 touchdown totals 4 passing, 5 interceptions.  And 3 of Levis total touchdowns came against MIZ. 

Richardson killed Levis in this comparison against common opponents. 

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

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1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

I honestly don't think I've seen anyone make that argument either. You need both. I think what you've seen argued is that Richardson has very intriguing talent IF you think he can be developed and you've interpreted that as thinking everything CAN be coached up.

Also on the flip side there have been plenty of "safe" "pro style offense/NFL ready" guys that completely busted. Fine in college but couldn't handle NFL pressure. 

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Kentucky Panther Mentor

Kentucky Panther

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1 minute ago, Varking said:

Wait… do you evaluate QBs based on their “head to head” where they don’t play against the same defenses? 

They have four common opponents. Georgia, Vanderbilt, Miz and Tennessee. 

1190 yards passing, 9 touchdowns total, 6 passing, 3 Interceptions.

vs

583 yards passing, 4 touchdown totals 4 passing, 5 interceptions.  And 3 of Levis total touchdowns came against MIZ. 

Richardson killed Levis in this comparison against common opponents. 

When Levis is healthy he’s the better QB.  It’s painful being a UK football fan most years but I watch every game.  I have seen a lot of Richardsons games, too. You won’t see many scouts with Richardson ahead of Levis. But sure, those four games with zero context are appealing. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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39 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

The interview and background process is a huge part of the evaluation that we get minimal insight into as fans and it's utterly vital and anything that does come out is likely to be misinformation.

Yeah, unless you personally know someone close to the situation a lot of that you end up inferring from someone shooting up draft boards or dropping like a rock.

Sometimes it does become widely known later.

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Varking Grand Master

Varking

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2 minutes ago, Kentucky Panther said:

When Levis is healthy he’s the better QB.  It’s painful being a UK football fan most years but I watch every game.  I have seen a lot of Richardsons games, too. You won’t see many scouts with Richardson ahead of Levis. But sure, those four games with zero context are appealing. 

So don’t go with Levis if you think he’s going to get dinged up behind your offensive line because that is going to make him worse than a first year starting Richardson? And he is two years older than Richardson. Personally, Levis has shown me Josh Love levels of performance drop from year 3 to year 4 that he is very concerning. I will go with the guy who seems to be growing vs declining. 

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Kentucky Panther Mentor

Kentucky Panther

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1 minute ago, Varking said:

So don’t go with Levis if you think he’s going to get dinged up behind your offensive line because that is going to make him worse than a first year starting Richardson? And he is two years older than Richardson. Personally, Levis has shown me Josh Love levels of performance drop from year 3 to year 4 that he is very concerning. I will go with the guy who seems to be growing vs declining. 

You can chalk it up to me being salty because I definitely am. I don’t think Levis is getting a fair evaluation this year. But context is important. Levis shot up draft boards last year with his ability to make plays with his legs as well as throw it anywhere on the field. He lost his OC to the NFL (our new one is trash) and you can’t run on a bum ankle. Not to mention our line is pretty bad. The Panthers, on the other hand, don’t have that issue. 
 

Don’t get me wrong. I would take Young or Stroud any day over these two. But I just do not get the Richardson love at all. He has all the physical tools but I haven’t seen a lot of players get in their own heads the way this kid does. It’s bad. 

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kungfoodude Grand Master

kungfoodude

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14 minutes ago, Kentucky Panther said:

When Levis is healthy he’s the better QB.  It’s painful being a UK football fan most years but I watch every game.  I have seen a lot of Richardsons games, too. You won’t see many scouts with Richardson ahead of Levis. But sure, those four games with zero context are appealing. 

We are pretty early in the evaluation cycle but it is surprising to hear anonymous quotes from NFL FO people saying they are still very high on Levis.

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