from Darin's mailbag re: the 2002 top 3 picks in the draft

[Icege]

"We didn't win the Super Bowl, so it wasn't worth it" is such a wild response to drafting a HoF pass rusher.

 

[Aussie Tank]

Mate I’m gonna use a poker analogy to describe my thoughts. It’s all about the odds like we’re going all in pre flop. Say Trevor Lawrence/ Andrew Luck are pocket aces sure they can be broken but they were the best play statistically. 
 

And I know you didn’t mention Corral but I bring him up a bit I see him with his 3rd talent, injuries and what we’ve seen so far as a middle of the range hand. And being diligent is not going all in with a hand like that. If our front office identifies a better hand we need to play it. Whether that’s taking one with our 1st, early 2nd or trading up somewhere in between 

[CBird]

Give me Will Anderson or Jalen Carter all day.  Save some picks and trade the farm for Drake May

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Why do Panther fans love the revisionist history that Cam was a sure thing?

[Tbe]

15 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

The “we didn’t win a championship with Peppers” line of thinking is miserable. 
 

If can’t find joy or meaning in watching your team outside of “Super Bowl” the odds are not in your favor of enjoying the game. 
 

We lost to the Patriots in that Super Bowl, but it was one of the best Super Bowls ever, and it came down to one play. 
 

And we did it as a whole team, without a Peyton Manning type QB. 

Sorry, the game was different back then.

The whole, “let’s just enjoy a HOF player while enduring terrible offenses waiting 30 years to find a decent 2nd round QB and never having b2b winning seasons” is just as miserable.

 

[Wundrbread33]

10 minutes ago, Tbe said:

Sorry, the game was different back then.

The whole, “let’s just enjoy a HOF player while enduring terrible offenses waiting 30 years to find a decent 2nd round QB and never having b2b winning seasons” is just as miserable.

 

That is such a parody of what I said. 
 

I want a QB as much as anybody. Duh. Who doesn’t? But damn…there are 32 teams and 1 wins it all. And we can’t control any of this poo. 
 

We’ve had teams that were great to watch with players who were fun. They mean nothing because they don’t have a ring? 
 

2015 for example, was a better season than most franchises will ever have, Super Bowl or not. Hell of a ride. 
 

Also that year, we got beat by a stellar defense and a below average QB in Peyton at that age. 
 

There are many ways to win. I’d love the next Mahomes, but you banking on that? Good luck. 

[MasterAwesome]

38 minutes ago, Tbe said:

I loved Julius, but he didn’t win a single championship here.

If your goal is to have HOF players, great draft the best player.

If your goal is to win, you have to get a QB. The best way to do that is take a chance high (top 15) in the draft.

How is that a compelling argument when Peppers got us as far as Cam did?  Cam was a legit franchise QB with an incredible MVP season and we still have 0 championships to show for it.  It proves that it's never as simple as you're trying to make it out to be.

[Tbe]

24 minutes ago, Wundrbread33 said:

That is such a parody of what I said. 
 

I want a QB as much as anybody. Duh. Who doesn’t? But damn…there are 32 teams and 1 wins it all. And we can’t control any of this poo. 
 

We’ve had teams that were great to watch with players who were fun. They mean nothing because they don’t have a ring? 
 

2015 for example, was a better season than most franchises will ever have, Super Bowl or not. Hell of a ride. 
 

Also that year, we got beat by a stellar defense and a below average QB in Peyton at that age. 
 

There are many ways to win. I’d love the next Mahomes, but you banking on that? Good luck. 

2015 is a great example. That season was setup because we actually took a chance on a QB. A QB that many said was a mistake. Everyone forgets that a ton of mocks had Cam going outside the top 10. Instead of going for the ‘sure thing’ like Von Miller or the top rated DT Nick Fairly, we took a chance on the most valuable position in football.

What Darrin basically said was, “QBs are risky, so let’s just take the “sure thing” player and enjoy them because it’s better than taking a QB and failing”. 

That is such a loser mentality.

Take the HOF players when you can, but when you need a QB take it. Especially since most SB QBs were selected in the 1st round.

[Wundrbread33]

6 minutes ago, Tbe said:

2015 is a great example. That season was setup because we actually took a chance on a QB. A QB that many said was a mistake. Everyone forgets that a ton of mocks had Cam going outside the top 10. Instead of going for the ‘sure thing’ like Von Miller or the top rated DT Nick Fairly, we took a chance on the most valuable position in football.

What Darrin basically said was, “QBs are risky, so let’s just take the “sure thing” player and enjoy them because it’s better than taking a QB and failing”. 

That is such a loser mentality.

Take the HOF players when you can, but when you need a QB take it. Especially since most SB QBs were selected in the 1st round.

As just shown, you can find examples of everything. There is an example of both viewpoints in 2015. 
 

We had a franchise QB that got us to a Super Bowl. Denver had poo QB play and they got to the Super Bowl. 
 

Everyone here wants to win. There are just different paths and opinions on how to get there. 
 

Calling other opinions as “loser mentality” is lame. I see people calling tankers as “losers” too. Wish we could stop doing it. 
 

We simply all want to win. That’s seems evident across the board, at least long term. 

[run-run-pass-punt]

Great players make great teams. The positions will always be what they are, and you try to fill them with the best players you can. But just because there is a void at a position - any position - doesn't mean you try to force it. Hope and need won't make players better than what they are.

[trueblade]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

best point i've seen him make in a while.

just something to consider.

i really want us to get a QB in the first round next year...but we have to keep remembering that no first round QB is ever a sure thing, which is especially important to remember in the first few picks. 

go for the sure(st) thing in the draft with the early pick and then use those picks from CMC's trade to come back in and pick up another QB if we like one that is still around. 

Gantt chose a draft that supported his point. If he wanted to make a different point, he would have used 2005. It's just what people in his position do. 

Here's how he could have written it:

In 2005, the Raiders, because “QBs are risky, so let’s just take the “sure thing” player and enjoy them because it’s better than taking a QB and failing," used their first round pick on cornerback Fabian Washington. The Packers settled for Aaron Rodgers. Two picks later, the Seahawks , because “QBs are risky, so let’s just take the “sure thing” player and enjoy them because it’s better than taking a QB and failing," took center Chris Spencer.

One of those cats is going to the Pro Football Hall of Fame someday soon, and it ain't Fabian Washington or Chris Spencer.

[trueblade]

2 hours ago, rayzor said:

best point i've seen him make in a while.

just something to consider.

i really want us to get a QB in the first round next year...but we have to keep remembering that no first round QB is ever a sure thing, which is especially important to remember in the first few picks. 

go for the sure(st) thing in the draft with the early pick and then use those picks from CMC's trade to come back in and pick up another QB if we like one that is still around. 

The larger concern I have is that the team seems to be already putting out (through Gantt, who they employ) that they may pass on a QB. 

[rayzor]

5 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I do think that we are set up nicely for a QB to succeed. The OL is the biggest issue....aside from coaching anyways. 

We've got a WR corps that is young and has a lot of potential (imo). We've got a workhorse RB if we can keep him another year or two for cheap. But the OL is what I think we needed most personnel-wise. Lock up Bozeman. Get a good TE from draft and/or FA (we should have two good receiving TEs).  And then we're set. Defense is set up for some success, but it would be great to get a good powerful answer opposite Burns and/or a big beefy powerful DT beside Brown. 

And again, I don't think it's ultimately really going to matter where in the first we get our QB in the first as long as we get one with a legit first round grade.

Meaning more that we shouldn't stress out if we're in danger of missing out on Young or Stroud. They'll still be a couple good options available, imo. 

The #1 thing we need, though, is a good HC who can find a QB that fits what he wants to do or, better yet, take the best available QB and make it work with him.

If we get a good HC, I think everything else will fall into place.... whether or not we draft Stroud or Young or any QB with a top 5 pick.

Copy/paste from another thread because this was the one I thought I was posting in. 

Oh well.

[rayzor]

1 hour ago, Sean Payton's Vicodin said:

Why do Panther fans love the revisionist history that Cam was a sure thing?

To me he was. I had no doubt he was exactly what this franchise needed on many levels and I knew it just from watching the Iron Bowl. There wasn't another QB I wanted in that draft. There wasn't another pick I was going to be happy with. It was Cam or the draft was going to be a failure and the #1 pick a waste.

I have no feeling like that about anyone in this draft, btw. I like Young and Stroud, but I don't have the confidence in them  I had in Cam.