Panthers roster moves made by Rhule and Fitterer are starting to pay off under Wilks

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, bythenbrs said:

On the suckage scale 1 to 10 with 10 the highest, just how high would you rate Rhule?  Bonus question: Is your rating absolute or just a relative ranking compared to, say, Rivera?

Pretty high sadly, and that's independent of anything else.

Rivera is definitely a better NFL coach, but he and Rhule have different weaknesses.

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, bythenbrs said:

On the suckage scale 1 to 10 with 10 the highest, just how high would you rate Rhule?  Bonus question: Is your rating absolute or just a relative ranking compared to, say, Rivera?

Rhule and Rivera are probably closer than people realize.  Give Rhule prime Cam and Luke I'm sure his record is better.  He goes 5-11 and 5-12 his first two years.  Does Cam add 3-4 wins?  I think I read or heard somewhere last year if you flip all of our one score games, we make the playoffs.  Does Cam and Luke make that big of a difference?  If not, then Cam isn't as good as people around here think.

Now look at Ron at Wash without a good QB, 2 straight losing seasons to start out.

I'm not saying Rhule is better but can't ignore the fact one had a pretty good QB and the other did not.

 

[Sgt Schultz]

21 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Rhule and Rivera are probably closer than people realize.  Give Rhule prime Cam and Luke I'm sure his record is better.  He goes 5-11 and 5-12 his first two years.  Does Cam add 3-4 wins?  I think I read or heard somewhere last year if you flip all of our one score games, we make the playoffs.  Does Cam and Luke make that big of a difference?  If not, then Cam isn't as good as people around here think.

Now look at Ron at Wash without a good QB, 2 straight losing seasons to start out.

I'm not saying Rhule is better but can't ignore the fact one had a pretty good QB and the other did not.

 

I don't know that it is that simple (Cam/Luke could add the wins).  One of the major failings I see on The Process at the NFL level is that they were awful at putting players in positions to succeed.  It was like they were trying to outsmart the world with every decision, hamstrung their best players, and almost strove to make everybody look the same out there.

For example: Chinn.  The guy proved to be an incredible hybrid OLB/SS, SS, or OLB, and once we saw that, what did we do?  The logical thing and moved him to FS.

We fumbled around with players in positions in which the answer was pretty clear early on.  Including some where their ideal position was "on the bench" because we had somebody better.

We did no better at game planning and play calling. 

You have to ask what offensive plays/scheme that cast of characters would have called with Cam at QB, and how The Process would have tried to control that?

Same with an obvious elite MLB and extremely solid defense.  How would they have hampered it?

Rivera's fault was failing to surround Cam with more talent on the OL and WR position, which resulted in his having to directly account for more offensive production and taking more hits along the way.  His staff also did not adjust to individual opponents, either in the game plan or during the game.  But he didn't try to outsmart everybody and winding up looking like a buffoon. 

I'd like to think Cam, Luke, the 2015 Norman, etc would have resulted in more wins for The Process, but the end result may have been somebody in that locker room eventually stuffing his head in a toilet because he couldn't stay out of the way, at a minimum.

Edited November 15, 2022 by Sgt Schultz

[Waldo]

28 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

Rhule and Rivera are probably closer than people realize.  Give Rhule prime Cam and Luke I'm sure his record is better.  He goes 5-11 and 5-12 his first two years.  Does Cam add 3-4 wins?  I think I read or heard somewhere last year if you flip all of our one score games, we make the playoffs.  Does Cam and Luke make that big of a difference?  If not, then Cam isn't as good as people around here think.

Now look at Ron at Wash without a good QB, 2 straight losing seasons to start out.

I'm not saying Rhule is better but can't ignore the fact one had a pretty good QB and the other did not.

 

I'm a huge critic of Rivera but he was an NFL quality coach and Rhule was a meh school level coach, that difference is large at this level. I get your point and there is something to it but Rivera can run one side of the ball and Rhule is qualified to play with his brand. That is a big gap from the beginning. 

Also those QBs that Rhule had were his choices. Not his top choices but the ones that would come here to play under him. He could have drafted Fields so that falls on Rhule after 3 years of chances to take a QB worth playing. Rivera without Cam is a sub .500 HC as his time in DC has shown but he is still .500 on this year even with his garbage QB preferences. Rhule just kept getting worse and Ron is amazingly stubborn about any change so he is still doing the same stuff and getting the same results every year. 

Any way I can look at it Rivera is a better HC in the NFL and that gap is really competency for the get go. Rhule had zero NFL competency and the best thing I can say is that he looked at players physical abilities so at least we have some physically talented players to try and coach up now. 

Edited November 15, 2022 by Waldo

[AU-panther]

30 minutes ago, Waldo said:

I'm a huge critic of Rivera but he was an NFL quality coach and Rhule was a meh school level coach, that difference is large at this level. I get your point and there is something to it but Rivera can run one side of the ball and Rhule is qualified to play with his brand. That is a big gap from the beginning. 

Also those QBs that Rhule had were his choices. Not his top choices but the ones that would come here to play under him. He could have drafted Fields so that falls on Rhule after 3 years of chances to take a QB worth playing. Rivera without Cam is a sub .500 HC as his time in DC has shown but he is still .500 on this year even with his garbage QB preferences. Rhule just kept getting worse and Ron is amazingly stubborn about any change so he is still doing the same stuff and getting the same results every year. 

Any way I can look at it Rivera is a better HC in the NFL and that gap is really competency for the get go. Rhule had zero NFL competency and the best thing I can say is that he looked at players physical abilities so at least we have some physically talented players to try and coach up now. 

So Cam isn’t worth 3-4 more wins than Darnold? If he is then their records over time probably would have been closer than people want to admit. 

[Waldo]

Just now, AU-panther said:

So Cam isn’t worth 3-4 more wins than Darnold? If he is then their records over time probably would have been closer than people want to admit. 

No QB played well under Rhule. They all played their worst actually. Cam came back and subbed in for a win and then Rhule found a way to ruin even that so no, not under Rhule. He was never qualified to coach at the NFL level and meh even at the school level, mostly on the back of Snow's D. 

If Rhule had a superpower it would be making anything good worse. Just look at Chinn. 

[AU-panther]

Make a list of the top 20-30 QBs of all time and tell me how many never had back to back winning seasons.

Either Cam or Ron or Both were severely overrated.  Which one was it?

 

[Jackie Lee]

I'm guessing 3 of the 4 guys mentioned were Fitt moves because they couldn't get off the bench when Rhule was in charge. 

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He was literally bidding against himself for Darnold.  He got taken by the damn Jets.  Then to extend him needlessly is goddamn criminal

He was bidding against himself with no leverage. Rhule had already played the hand by getting T2G out the door. The Jets didn't have to trade him. They could have just as easily sat on him. Either we trade for Darnold or.... who else were we going to get? Was it an overpay? Yeah. But as we've all seen, Rhule put everyone in position to look worse, and that included Fitts. The 5th year was fuggin stupid. 

[CPcavedweller]

15 hours ago, Ocpanthertew714 said:

Hmmm...

Thought this was a very intriguing article from the observer.

 

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/sports/nfl/carolina-panthers/article268626277.html

 

What do you all think about this opinion piece??

 

 

The roster moves are paying off under Wilks because he's an NFL coach unlike Rhule.

[poundaway]

 

3 hours ago, Waldo said:

No QB played well under Rhule. They all played their worst actually.

 

Actually Teddy had  a career year in 2020.

Baker and Sam declined.

[Basbear]

10 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

Kaye is about as far away from a propaganda type person as anyone I've seen. 

Hell, he's been more than willing to call out negatives regarding both the team and its ownership. It's refreshing to see.

He and Ellis Williams are as good a coverage team as The Observer has had on staff.

Isnt the observer on a constant turn over every few months after having 10+ years vet?? Feels like kaye is the 5th hire since jordan/joe... 

[OldhamA]

7 hours ago, run-run-pass-punt said:

I don't fault Fitt for the Sam trade. I mean if you don't have a QB, what are you supposed to do? You've got to turn over all the rocks and look in all the nooks and crannies until you get it solved. Maybe we could have paid less to get him, and I surely think it was a mistake to pick up the option, but there was enough justification to pull the trigger on acquiring him initially, especially given the dearth of options.

The mistake was not giving him an NFL quality OLine.

[OldhamA]

10 hours ago, Snake said:

Normally that's the case. In our case though on think it's just guys getting an opportunity. Getting rid of Anderson help this team in many ways. So did getting rid of CMC. Rhule was a terrible judge of talent and it's showing now. 

If he's as involved as we all think with the last three Drafts then he's a very good judge of talent.

For some reason he then puts that talent on the bench - Foreman, Marshall, Boseman (although I think Elflein was fine at C this year, Boseman is clearly an upgrade)... so I question his people skills. You don't really need those as a College Head Coach.