hypothetical ~ charlie weis OC

[pantherclaw]

Charlie Weis is out of coaching currently. He was the original guy Fox wanted when Fox first became HC of the Panthers.

So I was curious, if they brought in Charlie Weis as OC, and kept Fox, how many fans would be okay with that?

I'm not saying I'm giving Fox a pass, cause I'm not. Just thought that this could end up being a avenue of possibility for the team to pursue should Richardson not want to completely turn over the coaching staff.

[guyinchesapeake]

I need to know who has final say so when a play is called now? Is the present game plan that is established so bad because of Davidson, or some other factor or reason? Does Fox override his OC consistently? Is Fox trusting his OC to make all the offensive calls, and thus the team, and Fox, are paying a price for that? These are the questions I want answered.

I thought Henning was too conservative, and showed no imagination, but this present bunch just leaves me shaking my head.

If Weis were to be brought in, I'd like to see it announced that HE, and HE alone, is in charge of the offense. There's no doubt the man knows how to generate points. He won't have a Tom Brady to work with, but he will have a better running attack than New England ever had. But I do believe the team has stopped believing in Fox and his approach/system. But I'll try anything at this point. If we replace our OC, I hope we replace our ST coaches as well.

[CarolinaSock]

I'm still not sold on Weis being an offensive guru opposed to just being a product of Belichick. That offense didn't miss a beat when he left. Plus I'm completely out of patience with Fox and really don't want him here another year. He is far too stubborn and unwilling to adjust even at the detriment of the team. A coach should always be looking for ways to make his team better and more effective. I don't see Fox doing that.

[Fooball]

I'm still not sold on Weis being an offensive guru opposed to just being a product of Belichick.

This ^^^^^^^.

Every fan of a team that's currently below .600 or so is wondering what it would be like to have him as OC. (including a bunch on the Bucs board)

I'm not sold on him either. I may eat those words next year if he does good somewhere.

[Snake]

Im not sold on him. I really dont think it matters who you put at OC. Jon Fox is gonna run his offense the way he wants too. Dan Henning sure dose not seem all that bad right now.

[KillerKat]

If Weis being here means Fox will stay, then hell no!

[rayzor]

pats OCs are generally good because they are pushed to push the envelope. they are pushed to think outside the box and be bold.

remember that belichick is a coach that goes for it on 4th down more than anyone else.

the revolving door at OC and their ability to keep on top while those who leave for HC jobs fall apart lets me believe that, like we saw with cassell...it's all about the system and the head hoodie.

weiss would do no better than henning did and no better than davidson is. i could be wrong but it's just looking like fox does the opposite with his coordinators that belichick does with his. where fox pulls the reigns in, belichick pulls out the whip.

we want to be on top we have to be a lot more aggressive than fox is used to being.

i'd feel better with weiss if fox stayed but i am far from thinking that will solve many problems. we'll still be the turtle against a bunch of jack rabbits.

[Mr. Scot]

I'm still not sold on Weis being an offensive guru opposed to just being a product of Belichick. That offense didn't miss a beat when he left. Plus I'm completely out of patience with Fox and really don't want him here another year. He is far too stubborn and unwilling to adjust even at the detriment of the team. A coach should always be looking for ways to make his team better and more effective. I don't see Fox doing that.

Major flaw in that argument. There's no such thing as a successful "product of Belichick".

Coaches that Belichick has sent out to other jobs:

Eric Mangini

Romeo Crennel

Josh McDaniels

Charlie Weis

The two with the most success (and both only qualify as moderate success thus far, honestly) are McDaniels and Weis, both offensive coaches. Belichick is a defensive coach, and his defensive proteges have stunk it up as head coaches.

Successful because of Brady or the Pats system? That I could see, though I've read his offensive philosophies and find them sound.

"Product of Belichick" though? Not really.

[rayzor]

i just read a pretty good article on weiss and his offense that gives a pretty good insight into how he works and why he was able to be so successful in the NFL as an OC than as a college HC.

exerpt:

The Weis Offense

The Good

The strength of Weis' offensive playcalling, strategy, and design lies in three primary facets. First, as a playcaller Weis has an extraordinary ability to set up plays. He is frequently one or two plays ahead of opposing defensive coordinators. He waits for the perfect moment to dial up the perfect play, and this value of his playcalling abilities should not be overlooked or underestimated. Weis also adjusts his playcalling during a game as well as any other offensive coordinator. His ability to find something that will work is uncanny.

Second, Weis uses multiple formations and personnel groupings extremely effectively as the foundation of his offensive strategy. He believes in playing to the strengths of his offense and the weaknesses of opposing defenses. This sounds basic, and it is, but it is the way in which he goes about it that is exceptional. Weis uses formations and personnel groupings as well as any coach, generating the best possible matchups for his offense.

His offense creates these matchups by utilizing play and formation groupings that force the opposition to defend multiple plays from the same post-snap motion and different pre-snap formations. It isn't that his offenses run that many plays, per se, it is that he designs his offense to run the same play from multiple looks, i.e. several formations and personnel groupings. This gives his offense extreme breadth and the appearance of great depth while seemingly not increasing its complexity.

Third, Weis is meticulous in his pre-game preparation. On a week-to-week basis he dissects opposing defenses, scavenging for weaknesses and exploiting them. He has an excellent record of scripting plays, scoring on the opening drives of games a remarkable percentage of the time.

The Bad

As good as Weis can be as a playcaller, developing offensive strategy, and preparing for games there are drawbacks to his approach. As a playcaller Weis typically gets too creative when it isn’t necessary. This has often been his critics’ biggest complaint. Rather than stick with something basic and effective, he frequently tries to get cute or complicated. More often than not this backfires when something simple would have been effective. In 2007, for example, there was no reason to run the ball all the way down the field only to call a play-action pass in the red zone in hopes of catching the defense off guard and scoring.

Additionally, Weis' offenses are typically pass-first. While the play calling percentage is frequently near 50/50 run/pass, the run is not used as a "strike-first" weapon. Rather, it is used to complement the passing game and keep opposing defenses honest. Weis focuses mostly on offensive and defensive mismatches in the passing game, and over the majority of his career hasn't employed a power running game. Because his offense is pass-heavy, it needs fairly experienced football players to execute it. Precision in the passing game also requires excellent timing between the quarterback and his receivers, making practice time a commodity.

Finally, Weis’ offense relies heavily on a very high level of quarterback play. The quarterback must not only know his own assignment, he must also know the assignments of every other position. This isn’t uncommon for any offense but due to the complexities of the route adjustments, hot reads, and audibles, the quarterback is tasked with a high level of responsibility.

Fulfilling this level of responsibility requires more than a minimum amount of intelligence and specific physical tools. It requires repetition and practice. It requiers the quarterback to be able to read defenses, understand the offensive play call, and then adapt to what the defense does both before and after the snap. And it requires that the quarterback perform these tasks in a very short amount of time.

Memorizing the playbook and being able to make the throws are only the beginning of a quarterback's responsibilities in Weis' offense. The most difficult task is taking the mental part of the game and translating it into the physical. The most difficult part is reacting, rather than thinking and then doing. However, since Weis has a great reputation and proven track record for developing quarterback talent so this need of his offense typically isn’t a concern.

link

only way i would feel ok with weis coming in as OC is if it was only for a one year deal to match the one last year on fox's contract. if they could make it work..great. if not...bye bye.

only way it could work, though, is for fox to take his hands completely off the offense and let weis do his thing.

here is something that i could see happening (not something that i am wishing for by any means) if fox stayed and weis was brought in. brady quinn being brought in as QB. he'd have his old college HC and his old QB coach from the browns.

again, i'm not crazy about this happening but i could see it. i'd try to keep an open mind about it just like i did this past offseason. bringing in someone like weiss would be a step in the right direction. picking up another QB would be a step in the right direction (or at least an effort to take a step right there which is all i would call the addition of quinn).

all that said, i'd still rather just move forward with a new HC.

[Mr. Scot]

here is something that i could see happening (not something that i am wishing for by any means) if fox stayed and weis was brought in. brady quinn being brought in as QB. he'd have his old college HC and his old QB coach from the browns.

again, i'm not crazy about this happening but i could see it. i'd try to keep an open mind about it just like i did this past offseason. bringing in someone like weiss would be a step in the right direction. picking up another QB would be a step in the right direction (or at least an effort to take a step right there which is all i would call the addition of quinn).

all that said, i'd still rather just move forward with a new HC.

I've pondered the notion that Weis could come in and try to make a move to get Brady Quinn.

Given the choice, I'd rather get Jimmy Claussen, but Mel Kiper now has him listed as the highest QB on his draft board. Barring unforeseen developments, getting him probably would take a major trade-up. Trading for Quinn? Hard to predict.

But could I get behind a joining of Fox, Weis and Quinn? Probably. It just wouldn't be my first choice.

(still hoping for Mike Zimmer)

[rayzor]

But could I get behind a joining of Fox, Weis and Quinn? Probably. It just wouldn't be my first choice.

(still hoping for jim harbaugh)

agreed. :co:

[Mr. Scot]

agreed. :co:

You're a jerk

[rayzor]

You're a jerk

[tight lines]

Well there is now a development that does have some bearing on this. Weis has been fired and he says he is going to be coaching in the NFL next year

Weis said

"I'm going to coach in the NFL next year. I have no idea for who.

http://www.wndu.com/sports/headlines/78599417.html