Willing to wait two more seasons?

[kungfoodude]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

I am going to agree to disagree because our defense is imploding and teams have figured us out.  That and the fact that if we have all this talent we are still sitting at 2 wins.  Our front 7 needs a massive overhaul and thats not really up for debate.   In regards to our corners, CJ Henderson needs to be cut today.  He brings nothing. 

Well Cleveland had and has ample talent from their years of drafting in higher positions. Now, not as much talent as they should have because they also flubbed that to a degree. However, PLENTY of excellent talent has gone through those doors during their 1999 and onward existence.

Talent can get you only so far in the NFL. You need quality coaching, good management and good ownership as well. All those things need to be at least above average to put together a winning team and they need to good or great to be able to have extended periods of success and competitiveness. 

Now, do we have those other elements that will be able to take the talent we at least do have and mold a team? That's the question. I haven't seen very much evidence of that yet. 

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

If they have figured our defense out, isn’t that a coaching scheme? 

Nah, we are not deep in the front 7 to make a difference.   Shaq is gone in the offseason and we need a new mlb to go with it.  Luvu has regressed against the run and we need more depth on the line.  Just the way it is

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

He isn’t under contract… we wouldn’t have to give up anything.  If the ravens franchise tag Lamar it’s probably 2 firsts and a mid round… that’s nowhere near our entire draft.

Again, we are going to agree to disagree because its going to cost way more then that for Jackson.

[Newbie]

1 hour ago, Jmac said:

Obviously this team needs much more then a QB. They need Linebackers, DE, and DLine help. Offense needs TE help and probably a RB. WR would help also.

They can fill some of these in FA if the $$ is available.  Still have to resign some valuable OL players.

After watching that sh%tshow yesterday, the fact that they need help at many positions is obvious. Can't fill all these holes in one season. 

Probably will take two or three good drafts and FA signings to be competitive on a constant basis.

Are you okay with remaining patient while they finally built the team the right way?

No more throwing shat at the wall and see what sticks....

 

 

 

 

This is all part of Matt Rhule’s 7 year plan. 

[kungfoodude]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Good coach absolutely, but looking around the league at some of the top rookie qb seasons I aint seeing a whole lot of winning their first year

Well considering only one went in the first round and most are riding the pine as 3rd round or lower guys, I don't think last year's class is a good example of that. 

If you go to the class before, that's probably a better argument. But Lawrence had a dreadful HC in his rookie year(the only one worse than Rhule), Lance didn't play anything but in spots(which would be the example you mention) and Fields struggled mightily on a team with a lot less talent and also a poor coach(now fired). Jones was successful with a far better coach but lesser talent. He is also possibly the lowest ceiling guy from that class.

So, half of those cases included bad coaching. Not surprisingly, those two QB's are performing better in year two. Lance unfortunately was injured early so its hard to say how that will turn out. Jones is struggling with a bad coaching(in this case coordinator) situation now but was also the least talented of these guys.

[TheCasillas]

4 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Again, we are going to agree to disagree because its going to cost way more then that for Jackson.

What is the absolute most you think the ravens would get in aJackson trade? Even if it was a deshaun Watson level of requirements, we would still have a full draft this year aside from our 1st. We have the capital to trade for him without losing our draft.

[ickmule]

Nope. I didn’t watch a single play yesterday.  I’m moving away further every day.  

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, kungfoodude said:

Well considering only one went in the first round and most are riding the pine as 3rd round or lower guys, I don't think last year's class is a good example of that. 

If you go to the class before, that's probably a better argument. But Lawrence had a dreadful HC in his rookie year(the only one worse than Rhule), Lance didn't play anything but in spots(which would be the example you mention) and Fields struggled mightily on a team with a lot less talent and also a poor coach(now fired). Jones was successful with a far better coach but lesser talent. He is also possibly the lowest ceiling guy from that class.

So, half of those cases included bad coaching. Not surprisingly, those two QB's are performing better in year two. Lance unfortunately was injured early so its hard to say how that will turn out. Jones is struggling with a bad coaching(in this case coordinator) situation now but was also the least talented of these guys.

I was talking about rookie qb seasons as a whole

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, TheCasillas said:

What is the absolute most you think the ravens would get in aJackson trade? Even if it was a deshaun Watson level of requirements, we would still have a full draft this year aside from our 1st. We have the capital to trade for him without losing our draft.

They would want our top 5 pick, our seconds and next years first pick at a minimum 

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

They would want our top 5 pick, our seconds and next years first pick at a minimum 

The texans didnt even get that for Watson. No way the Ravens would get that. 

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, TheCasillas said:

The texans didnt even get that for Watson. No way the Ravens would get that. 

Wilson got that

 

wait watson got 3 firsts, what are you talking about?

Edited November 7, 2022 by mrcompletely11

[kungfoodude]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

I was talking about rookie qb seasons as a whole

Yeah but that isn't a fair comparison. You can't expect a 1st round QB to perform the same as a 7th round QB, almost regardless of the season. There are certainly outliers that exist but the long term statistics bear out that the success rate is higher for 1st round QB's. Considerably so as the rounds go lower.

So Pickett, Willis, Ridder, Howell, Corral, etc.....that class is less likely to net a franchise QB or even good journeyman because it wasn't a good QB class and the opportunities will naturally be less.

You might get a Geno Smith story or a Russell Wilson story but those are exceptional because....well....they are the exception.

[TheCasillas]

2 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Wilson got that

 

wait watson got 3 firsts, what are you talking about?

I read that as you put 3 firsts and our 2 seconds... still sipping on my coffee. 

Edited November 7, 2022 by TheCasillas

[mrcompletely11]

Just now, kungfoodude said:

Yeah but that isn't a fair comparison. You can't expect a 1st round QB to perform the same as a 7th round QB, almost regardless of the season. There are certainly outliers that exist but the long term statistics bear out that the success rate is higher for 1st round QB's. Considerably so as the rounds go lower.

So Pickett, Willis, Ridder, Howell, Corral, etc.....that class is less likely to net a franchise QB or even good journeyman because it wasn't a good QB class and the opportunities will naturally be less.

You might get a Geno Smith story or a Russell Wilson story but those are exceptional because....well....they are the exception.

my bad, sorry I wasnt clear, I am talking about highly drafted rookies like the ones in the top 10 because thats where we are going to be picking one.   If you look at the top rookie qbs in the past say 10 drafts you will see a lot of growing pains.  Which is why I have said 2024 is when we should be locked and loaded.  Should be being the operative phrase