Josh Downs the best WR in college ?

[CPcavedweller]

Give me Drake Maye or Caleb Williams in 2024 and Will Anderson or Marvin Harrison Jr. In 2023 and I'll be happy.

[BrianS]

37 minutes ago, Ja Rhule said:

He looks just like young version of his dad out there.  Amazing route running and hands.

No.  He's not.  MHJ has the physical presence his dad never had.  He's far more of a Randy Moss type.

[kungfoodude]

1 hour ago, Pakmeng said:

I realize watching sports is like going to the dentist for you but you are supposed to enjoy it and support your players.

This is an NFL forum. I am sure you are used to being perpetually confused but college homerism is how you end up drafting like Michael Jordan did for the Bobnets.

[MHS831]

1 hour ago, Ja Rhule said:

He looks just like young version of his dad out there.  Amazing route running and hands.

Except he is about 4" taller, I think

Edited November 6, 2022 by MHS831

[top dawg]

3 hours ago, rayzor said:

No, not the best. One of the top 5? Maybe, but not the best.

Would he help here? Sure.

Should we draft a WR in the first coue rounds.... probably not. 

QB, DE, TE, ILB...  these should all be addressed before WR. I would even rather adding depth to the OL and DL ahead of WR.

I know that it gets old and sounds like GM-speak, but "BPA, BPA, BPA!" You shouldn't draft players out of need, especially on days one and two. 

[1of10Charnatives]

7 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I know that it gets old and sounds like GM-speak, but "BPA, BPA, BPA!" You shouldn't draft players out of need, especially on days one and two. 

I used to think this way, but I'm moving away from this line of thought as I look at which positions contribute most to playoff success and which positions there are big dropoffs from elite talent to baseline. 

My argument goes like this:  The dropoff from elite QB play to average matters greatly in a league that revolves around the QB. Elite QB play is scarce, and is the single biggest factor by far in winning.

The dropoff from elite CB play to average is huge, elite QB play is scarce, and matters greatly to winning.

The dropoff from solid OL play to pourous is continously overlooked by most fans but can't be overstated in it's importance to offensive performance in both the passing game and running game. Average QB's look solid behind solid offensive lines, and awful behind awful OL's.

Get yourself a QB, an OL, and a secondary.

The dropoff from elite WR, RB and non pass rushing LB's to solid matters little to winning in the end and solid options at these positions are abundant and cheap league wide. Do not invest high picks in these areas unless you are solid at the key ones. Having an elite WR makes you feel good about your fantasy team, but elite WR's are not remotely the main drivers of playoff success, and they suck up draft capital and cap space better used elsewhere.

 

[rayzor]

30 minutes ago, top dawg said:

I know that it gets old and sounds like GM-speak, but "BPA, BPA, BPA!" You shouldn't draft players out of need, especially on days one and two. 

I have never bought into that unless you get the BPA from a list of needs. I know that probably means that we wouldn't have gotten Luke because we had Beason, but we lucked out in that one. 

We need a QB, a DE, and a TE desperately. The good thing is there are several good options available for those in this draft. Pick one of them.

[kungfoodude]

16 minutes ago, rayzor said:

I have never bought into that unless you get the BPA from a list of needs. I know that probably means that we wouldn't have gotten Luke because we had Beason, but we lucked out in that one. 

We need a QB, a DE, and a TE desperately. The good thing is there are several good options available for those in this draft. Pick one of them.

BPA isn't a set thing, IMO. Even people that say BPA mean within the framework of their needs. 

If you have a surefire franchise QB that gets injured and you end up with a top 10 pick, you wouldn't draft another franchise QB prospect for the sake of BPA.

Some fans interpret that too literally.

[top dawg]

46 minutes ago, 1of10Charnatives said:

I used to think this way, but I'm moving away from this line of thought as I look at which positions contribute most to playoff success and which positions there are big dropoffs from elite talent to baseline. 

My argument goes like this:  The dropoff from elite QB play to average matters greatly in a league that revolves around the QB. Elite QB play is scarce, and is the single biggest factor by far in winning.

The dropoff from elite CB play to average is huge, elite QB play is scarce, and matters greatly to winning.

The dropoff from solid OL play to pourous is continously overlooked by most fans but can't be overstated in it's importance to offensive performance in both the passing game and running game. Average QB's look solid behind solid offensive lines, and awful behind awful OL's.

Get yourself a QB, an OL, and a secondary.

The dropoff from elite WR, RB and non pass rushing LB's to solid matters little to winning in the end and solid options at these positions are abundant and cheap league wide. Do not invest high picks in these areas unless you are solid at the key ones. Having an elite WR makes you feel good about your fantasy team, but elite WR's are not remotely the main drivers of playoff success, and they suck up draft capital and cap space better used elsewhere.

 

I get what you're saying, don't get me wrong, but I still don't think it's a good idea to pass up on a potentially great player at one position for an inferior one at another. Who you take should be based upon scouting, and you have to trust your grades and your board to have a legitimate method of executing the draft, or it's all for naught. If you're just willy nilly up there going off script, you won't be successful. Stick to the board.

By the way, In today's NFL, I don't think that it's a coincidence that the last three champs have had highly rated receivers. It just makes the life of the QB so much easier, and can easily lead you to a championship, provided that you have a franchise-level QB.

 

Edited November 6, 2022 by top dawg

[1of10Charnatives]

What if the BPA is a kicker?

Sebastian Janikowski anyone?

[1of10Charnatives]

1 minute ago, top dawg said:

I get what you're saying, don't get me wrong, but I still don't think it's a good idea to pass up on a potentially great player at one position for an inferior one at another. Who you take should be based upon scouting, and you have to trust your grades and your board to have a legitimate method of executing the draft, or it's all for naught. If you're just willy nilly up there going off script, you will be successful. Stick to the board.

By the way, In today's NFL, I don't think that it's a coincidence that the last three champs have had highly rated receivers. It just makes the life of the QB so much easier, and can easily lead you to a championship, provided that you have a franchise level QB.

 

I think we're not too far off in our thinking. Agreed that you still have to get a decent player, but for the most important position, QB, history and the numbers say that your odds of getting the guy you need even when picking in the first round aren't great, but it's still your greatest overall need by far as a team. Where things get really tricky is when you have that mid to high first round pick like we will, if none of the QB prospects look outstanding, but a pass rusher does, what do you do then? 

I honestly don't know.

Regarding the WR thing, I just think that everyone wants to look at the WR's so much because what they do shows up on highlight reels. Let's look at something else the last 3 champs also had: solid OL play. I think it's instructive that when KC had solid OL play then won the SB. The next year, with the same WR corps, when their OL play faltered, Tampa's defense took advantage and that was the difference in the game. The thrilling game this past season arguably came down to the Ram's ability to take apart Cincy's OL protection. 

I've never said WR play doesn't matter. My contention is it's a lot easier to get good to great WR play than it is to get good to great OL play, and in a zero sum league where what matters isn't just being good, but being better than your competition, I think that's often the difference.

I will grant that passing by a great WR prospect to draft a dubious OT is still not the way to go however. First and foremost you need talent.

[Chris Smitty]

2 hours ago, CPcavedweller said:

Give me Drake Maye or Caleb Williams in 2024 and Will Anderson or Marvin Harrison Jr. In 2023 and I'll be happy.

Marvin Harrison is eligible in 2024. But I'm Ok, I think Maye or Williams will be better than Stroud/Young/Levis/Hooker/Richardson/anyone in this QB 23' class.

[Varking]

3 hours ago, ForJimmy said:

Marvin Harrison Jr is IMO. 

This. And Jordan Addison as well. 

[Brooklyn 3.0]

Just say NO to J.R. Reid!