Executives grade trade activity

[Wundrbread33]

So far (as expected) CMC is being used properly by a coach who doesn’t try to force a square peg into a round hole. 
 

He’s used in space, stretch zone read runs, catching the ball, and even throwing. 
 

He’s a hell of a football player and had no business running dive plays up the gut on 70% of his touches. 
 

Win/win. Happy for CMC. He deserves it. 

[Soul Rebel]

By no means am I saying that Foreman is CMC, especially in the passing game, but his numbers since CMC was traded are not too shabby:

 

 

26 years old, just like McCaffrey, and brings back Panthers' physicality in the running game. I've missed the Stephen Davis/Jonathan Stewart smashmouth style of ground attack. Add someone like Gibbs in the draft, and I think in one year, our RB situation is better set up for success both in production, as well as $$. 

[Wundrbread33]

2 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

By no means am I saying that Foreman is CMC, especially in the passing game, but his numbers since CMC was traded are not too shabby:

 

 

26 years old, just like McCaffrey, and brings back Panthers' physicality in the running game. I've missed the Stephen Davis/Jonathan Stewart smashmouth style of ground attack. Add someone like Gibbs in the draft, and I think in one year, our RB situation is better set up for success both in production, as well as $$. 

I would love Gibbs, but we’d need a new OC at least. Imagine running him up the middle every play lol. 

[joemac]

3 hours ago, rayzor said:

it sucks losing a star, sure-fire HoFer RB.

but considering the money tied up in him, the fact that he gets hurt a lot, and that we got a good few picks for him....i think it was worth it. 

we might not ever get another RB with that level of talent, but do we actually need one with that level of talent? the picks we go for him are going to go a long way in bringing in the talent we need to rise above the mud we've been stuck in for several years. 

Exactly.  CMC is an all-time great talent at his position.  However, is that really even needed?  Especially when you can find a guy like Foreman who, for 1 million dollars this year, can come in immediately and put up back to back 120 plus yard games, with 3 TDs in one game?  Good RBs are a dime a dozen theses days, and I am totally OK with having just a really good RB for 1 million dollars vs. an all world RB for 16 million a year. 

[rayzor]

1 minute ago, joemac said:

Exactly.  CMC is an all-time great talent at his position.  However, is that really even needed?  Especially when you can find a guy like Foreman who, for 1 million dollars this year, can come in immediately and put up back to back 120 plus yard games, with 3 TDs in one game?  Good RBs are a dime a dozen theses days, and I am totally OK with having just a really good RB for 1 million dollars vs. an all world RB for 16 million a year. 

Few can do what CMC can do. and not all RBs can pull off what Foreman is doing.

the thing is, like we said, you don't need someone that can do what CMC can do and there's enough RBs out there looking for a job with more reps that you can keep trying and not have to spend too much capital to get them who can give you the production that you need from the RB position. There's enough that you don't ever really have to draft one early or even really trade for. Get everything else worked out and you can do more with less with an RB. When you've got everything else worked out, you can afford to add some kind of elite talent to RB, but really it's a luxury commodity. 

 

[ForJimmy]

2 hours ago, Growl said:

what in the hoop jumping nonsense is this

the goal isn’t to “get lots of picks”

it’s to “build a super bowl caliber roster”

It makes perfect sense in regard to the trade itself. How we spend the picks is a different story. If I sell my car for twice it’s value then it’s a good sale/trade. If I poorly invest that money and lose it all, it doesn’t mean sell the car for twice it’s value was bad. It means I poorly invested AFTER the sale.

[Sgt Schultz]

31 minutes ago, Soul Rebel said:

By no means am I saying that Foreman is CMC, especially in the passing game, but his numbers since CMC was traded are not too shabby:

 

 

26 years old, just like McCaffrey, and brings back Panthers' physicality in the running game. I've missed the Stephen Davis/Jonathan Stewart smashmouth style of ground attack. Add someone like Gibbs in the draft, and I think in one year, our RB situation is better set up for success both in production, as well as $$. 

The problem with the CMC trade was that he represented so much of our offensive production.  That was not his fault, it was the design of the offense that either relied too heavily on him, or resorted to him when it was otherwise ineffective.

We are not the first team to lose a player with that impact.  And it seems like half the time the effect is not noticed or certainly not noticed on a 1:1 basis because the team is forced to distribute the load elsewhere.  Low and behold, it works.

[Mr. Scot]

54 minutes ago, rayzor said:

the thing is, like we said, you don't need someone that can do what CMC can do 

...unless you have an offensive coach who knows how to use those talents.

[Growl]

50 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

It makes perfect sense in regard to the trade itself. How we spend the picks is a different story. If I sell my car for twice it’s value then it’s a good sale/trade. If I poorly invest that money and lose it all, it doesn’t mean sell the car for twice it’s value was bad. It means I poorly invested AFTER the sale.

well this sounds nice and flowery until you think about it even a little bit and realize that a pretty metaphor doesn’t cover the reality of what is happening: 

picks after the second round cannot be reliably pegged as valuable because they are mathematically likely to be backups or depth pieces, and the caliber of a scouting department only affects those odds to a nominal extent 

you aren’t cognizant of what you can invest in, you can only play the odds and the reality is that the players the panthers pick are more likely than not going to be role players at best

[PNW_PantherMan]

4 minutes ago, Growl said:

well this sounds nice and flowery until you think about it even a little bit and realize that a pretty metaphor doesn’t cover the reality of what is happening: 

picks after the second round cannot be reliably pegged as valuable because they are mathematically likely to be backups or depth pieces, and the caliber of a scouting department only affects those odds to a nominal extent 

you aren’t cognizant of what you can invest in, you can only play the odds and the reality is that the players the panthers pick are more likely than not going to be role players at best

And if some of those picks are used in trades to move up and get certain guys, that kind of blows up your assessment of the value of the return.

We get it.  You think draft picks are dumb.

[SmokinwithWilly]

4 hours ago, Growl said:

what in the hoop jumping nonsense is this

the goal isn’t to “get lots of picks”

it’s to “build a super bowl caliber roster”

That starts with a NFL caliber coach. Hopefully our brain trust has recognized this 

[Growl]

25 minutes ago, PNW_PantherMan said:

And if some of those picks are used in trades to move up and get certain guys, that kind of blows up your assessment of the value of the return.

We get it.  You think draft picks are dumb.

now this I’m totally open to if the need arises to maneuver up for a QB, but it’s going to take a whole lot more than the mis to late round fluff the panthers got out of the mccaffrey deal

[rayzor]

32 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

...unless you have an offensive coach who knows how to use those talents.

i think even then it would HAVE to be a part of a balanced offense....not the focus of it. it's just not as crucial as other components and doesn't require an elite talent there. CMC was just too much of the focus, but when you have that talent, you feel like you have to take full advantage of it. it just, by the nature of the situation, forces your offense to be out of balance. let someone else have that issue to overcome. 

 

[ForJimmy]

50 minutes ago, Growl said:

well this sounds nice and flowery until you think about it even a little bit and realize that a pretty metaphor doesn’t cover the reality of what is happening: 

picks after the second round cannot be reliably pegged as valuable because they are mathematically likely to be backups or depth pieces, and the caliber of a scouting department only affects those odds to a nominal extent 

you aren’t cognizant of what you can invest in, you can only play the odds and the reality is that the players the panthers pick are more likely than not going to be role players at best

Yeah the later picks have a lower percentage of working out and an older CMC has a lower chance of staying healthy. These are variables outside of the trade and can affect how the final results appear.