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What’s your 2023 QB big board (including Corral)

Wundrbread33

By Wundrbread33,
in Carolina Panthers

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mrcompletely11 Grand Master

mrcompletely11

Posted
Posted
1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'm just talking about Buckeye quarterbacks. Those guys weren't taken in the first for a reason. I've seen the LSU and Oregon lists too.

Thing of it is, for as much as people decry "scouting helmets" there's usually a systemic reason things like that happen.

There is no systemic reason, its the simple fact that its hard as fug to be an nfl qb.  It literally doesnt matter where you went to school.   You have to actually be good. 

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Carolina Disaster Collaborator

Carolina Disaster

Posted
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2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Stroud may indeed be different, but it's also fair to point out that people said the same thing about Fields.

What's uppermost in my mind right now is who we get as a coach. The type of offense they want to run might have a significant effect on our choices.

Don't disagree.  Fields is different than Haskins, Jones, etc... I think Fields could be good in the NFL if used right.  He would have struggled here last year but I think he would be a different QB here this year.  Bears gave him no help.

 

Agree on the coach and what we do.  Its wait and see now until the end of the season!

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted
3 minutes ago, Carolina Disaster said:

Don't disagree.  Fields is different than Haskins, Jones, etc... I think Fields could be good in the NFL if used right.  He would have struggled here last year but I think he would be a different QB here this year.  Bears gave him no help.

Agree on the coach and what we do.  Its wait and see now until the end of the season!

I don't necessarily get a lot of agreement, but I've said before (and still think) that a lot of quarterbacks who wound up busting in the NFL could have been successful if they'd gotten the right coaching

David Carr is generally my prime example, but Justin Fields could very easily be another one.

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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20 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Before Haskins, there was Cardale Jones, Terrelle Pryor and Troy Smith.

My worry with Fields now is that I think the Bears are going to try to use him primarily as a runner in the kind of offense we ran with Newton and the Falcons did with Vick.

(we did it better, but Newton was better than Vick anyway so ..)

The problem with that kind of attack is that it's not really sustainable for any kind of long-term. It also has an unfortunate tendency to shorten your quarterback's career.

None of those were 1st rounds picks, I believe Pryor was in the supplemental draft, Smith was the end of the 5th round,  Jones was the 4th (I can't really call any of those a bust).  Those are Tressell QBs that were in a gimmick offense made for college, Ryan Day runs a much more pro style offense.  The previous 1st round bust before Haskins was from the 1980s, and the 1940s before that (who died in combat).  

They are definitely not setting up Fields for success with two 5th round tackles and Mooney as his only half way decent weapon.   I'm not sure running Cam shortened his career as much as us never giving him a good OL.   His long term injuries came from hits in the pocket (looking at you TJ Watt).  

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

Posted
Posted
6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't necessarily get a lot of agreement, but I've said before (and still think) that a lot of quarterbacks who wound up busting in the NFL could have been successful if they'd gotten the right coaching

David Carr is generally my prime example, but Justin Fields could very easily be another one.

I mean it's older guys but look at what's happening in Seattle and Denver. Theres other more subtle examples, Lawrence looks better, Giants are winning with Daniel Jones..

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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1 minute ago, ForJimmy said:

None of those were 1st rounds picks, I believe Pryor was in the supplemental draft, Smith was the end of the 5th round,  Jones was the 4th (I can't really call any of those a bust).  Those are Tressell QBs that were in a gimmick offense made for college, Ryan Day runs a much more pro style offense.  The previous 1st round bust before Haskins was from the 1980s, and the 1940s before that (who died in combat).  

They are definitely not setting up Fields for success with two 5th round tackles and Mooney as his only half way decent weapon.   I'm not sure running Cam shortened his career as much as us never giving him a good OL.   His long term injuries came from hits in the pocket (looking at you TJ Watt).  

I'll give you that the coaching change might make a big difference, but at least at the moment Fields isn't doing him any favors.

(granted, Matt Nagy didn't do Fields any favors either)

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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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2 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'll give you that the coaching change might make a big difference, but at least at the moment Fields isn't doing him any favors.

(granted, Matt Nagy didn't do Fields any favors either)

Yeah he still has no weapons, OL, and a defensive minded HC after having a rookie year of Nagy.  In spite of all of that he showed some flashes Monday night.  He is the QB Shanahan should have selected at 3 IMO.  

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

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20 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

There is no systemic reason, its the simple fact that its hard as fug to be an nfl qb.  It literally doesnt matter where you went to school.   You have to actually be good. 

There actually is a systemic reason, but it's not just tied to Ohio State.

Some years back, a guy with some experience in an NFL office (forget his name, might have Floyd Reese but I'm not for sure) talked with an NFL analyst about how colleges were producing a lot fewer NFL quality quarterbacks then they had in the past.

Changes in the systems, including a lot of teams going from "run the offense" quarterbacks to "be the offense" guys was a factor. Same sort of thing with receivers as it had become hard to find anybody who could run a full route tree.

There are still colleges who run a pro style offense, but they're way more rare than they once were. And it means the adjustment from college to the pros is a lot bigger deal now than it was.

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Mr. Scot Grand Master

Mr. Scot

Posted
Posted (edited)
2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Yeah he still has no weapons, OL, and a defensive minded HC after having a rookie year of Nagy.  In spite of all of that he showed some flashes Monday night.  He is the QB Shanahan should have selected at 3 IMO.  

I don't know how many chances I give him if they keep running him like they did last game.

Honestly, that's one of the reasons why I question the idea of Ken Dorsey as a head coach because I'm worried he might be doing the same to Josh Allen.

(Allen certainly has better talent around him, of course)

Edited by Mr. Scot
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ForJimmy Grand Master

ForJimmy

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3 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I don't know how many chances I give him if they keep running him like they did last game.

Honestly, that's one of the reasons why I question the idea of Ken Dorsey as a head coach because I'm worried he might be doing the same to Josh Allen.

(Allen certainly has better talent around him, of course)

It's a huge advantage when they can run like that plus throw, but you are right in the fact that it can be overused with wear and tear on the QB.  Hell we see RBs having shorter careers from being ran into the ground.  

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Jackie Lee Grand Master

Jackie Lee

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Posted
7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'll give you that the coaching change might make a big difference, but at least at the moment Fields isn't doing him any favors.

(granted, Matt Nagy didn't do Fields any favors either)

I didn't realize the Bears OC was one of those Rodgers QB coaches who basically didn't have to do anything the last 3 years. His other claim to fame is OC of the 2018 Mississippi State Bulldogs, which I don't know anything about college football but sounds pretty bland 

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