Inside the Carolina Panthers' three seasons of quarterback failure

[Santee_Panther]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He was in on darnold and in on baker when the scouts and others were not.  Thats not good

Re Sam, that was Rhule’s boy. Rhule was Fitt’s boss, so Fitt secured Sam for two years.

Re Baker, Fitt was “open to it” at the right (low price), but he also wanted Corral. 
 

Fitt has said from day one you keep swinging on QBs until you hit. Nothing he has done has mortgaged our future beyond one year. 

[Mr. Scot]

Herbert...

A scouting department source said it ranked LSU's Joe Burrow the top quarterback in the draft, with Oregon's Justin Herbert a close second and Alabama's Tua Tagovailoa third. Longtime NFL scout Donnie Warren, who was let go by Carolina before that year's draft and joined Ron Rivera in Washington for two years before retiring, confirmed Hurney "loved" Herbert and mentioned numerous times that he was high on his potential.

"[Rhule] knew where we stood, that this [draft] was a chance to get a long-term solution at the position," the scouting source said. "Not having a full evaluation process and staff meetings due to COVID could have affected that process. We weren't meeting in person."

The scouting department did enough legwork on Herbert to know the other teams that might also be in pursuit. There was a sense of what it would take to move from their No. 7 selection to the New York Giants' spot at No. 4, jumping the Miami Dolphins (No. 5) and Los Angeles Chargers (No. 6), who were believed to be locked on quarterbacks. Then-Giants general manager Dave Gettleman was a longtime Panthers executive with existing relationships in the building. A trade seemed plausible, but would not be pursued.

Though Carolina's scouts wanted Herbert, a Panthers front office source said there was concern that trading draft capital to make it happen could hurt other areas of the team.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

Bridgewater...

By the time the draft arrived, Carolina had already executed on a QB plan that team sources say started and ended with veteran Teddy Bridgewater. Bridgewater, who had worked with new Carolina offensive coordinator Joe Brady when he was a Saints offensive assistant in 2018, had played well in a five-game stretch relieving injured starter Drew Brees in 2019 and was an unrestricted free agent.

Competition for Bridgewater's free agent services was fierce, and despite the presence of both Tom Brady and former NC State star Philip Rivers in the free agent market, the Panthers were fixated on Bridgewater. He was considered a prime option for Tampa Bay if the Bucs struck out on Brady. As they did with Rhule's deal, the Panthers aggressively secured Bridgewater with a three-year, $63-million contract. Signing Bridgewater was viewed within the industry and within the team as a sensible move, a bridge to a long-term solution, allowing the offense to function in a transitional year while rebuilding other areas of the team through the draft.

The faction of the organization that was against drafting Herbert received what might have seemed like vindication in Week 3 of the 2020 season, when Bridgewater and the Panthers defeated Herbert and the Chargers in Los Angeles -- Rhule's first NFL win. But behind the scenes, a few of the scouts that had pushed for Herbert squirmed as they watched the 22-year-old throw for 330 yards, showing the poise and command of an offense they believed could have stabilized the position for a decade or more. Even as Carolina celebrated the win, one scout remembers texting another: "Man, we were right."

Herbert would win NFL Rookie of the Year. Bridgewater would win four more games before being traded to the Denver Broncos in exchange for a sixth-round draft choice on the eve of the 2021 draft, earning $31 million for one season in Carolina -- $24 million during the season and another $7 million to go away.

[mrcompletely11]

 

1 minute ago, Santee_Panther said:

Re Sam, that was Rhule’s boy. Rhule was Fitt’s boss, so Fitt secured Sam for two years.

Re Baker, Fitt was “open to it” at the right (low price), but he also wanted Corral. 
 

Fitt has said from day one you keep swinging on QBs until you hit. Nothing he has done has mortgaged our future beyond one year. 

1. The fact that he was even "open" to Baker is bad

2. In regards to Darnold it says "One team source said Rhule preferred to reach consensus with Fitterer before taking a plan to Tepper, describing the process as "collaborative." That differs from another team source, who said Rhule's leadership style was to "wear everybody out" until he got his way, even in big groups, and sometimes operated impulsively. In this case, Rhule was willing to overlook Darnold's well-documented problems with turnovers and accuracy.

3. If he didnt like either guy he should have pushed back no matter who the boss is.  He didnt.  Thats concerning, he thought it was a good idea/

lastly

4. Tepper was furious about the darnold 5th year option and that was all Fitt

 

At this point I could care less if he is fired or stays but I promise you that Tepper knows what fitt has done or not done at this point

[Mr. Scot]

Tepper's adjustment to the football world...

In the winter of 2021, less than three years into his tenure, Tepper was discovering success in pro football was more elusive. Teams were lucky to hit on three picks in the draft. Free agent acquisitions sometimes didn't work out. The reality didn't sit well with Tepper, according to a front office source.

"He expects football guys to be 100% right, like they are evaluating a balance sheet, and sometimes they are flat-out wrong," the source said.

[Mr. Scot]

The Stafford deal...

Just weeks into the job, Fitterer almost pulled off a massive coup, working the phones with Lions general manager Brad Holmes to try to secure Stafford via trade, then meeting with Holmes' staff in Mobile, Alabama, during Senior Bowl week in January. The Panthers made a compelling offer for Stafford that included the eighth overall pick in that year's draft.

Fitterer and Holmes talked on the field pregame and were close on a deal, per a Carolina front office source, with the Lions sending over medical records of Stafford's previous back injury.

Multiple Carolina assistant coaches say they boarded the team plane at the conclusion of the Senior Bowl thinking they had gotten Stafford. By the time they landed in Charlotte, word had leaked that Stafford was bound for the Los Angeles Rams.

Fitterer called Holmes, who apologized and said the L.A. deal came together quickly.

Edited October 26, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[mrcompletely11]

^ Dude the article is linked in the first post.  Its not a paywall.  What are you doing?

[Mr. Scot]

Darnold...

Weeks after that evaluation session, Rhule sent a group text to his coaches indicating the team was about to trade for Darnold and requesting to keep the intel private. The idea to trade for Darnold had begun with Rhule, who a front office source said popped into Fitterer's office after a defensive staff meeting to ask what the GM thought of the possibility.

Fitterer scouted Darnold while with the Seahawks and was intrigued by the former USC star's arm and escapability. The Panthers thought a change in scenery could help Darnold, a chance to pair with Joe Brady aiding Darnold's growth.

People inside the building had different interpretations for how Rhule, who did not respond to multiple requests to be interviewed for this story, handled personnel decisions.

One team source said Rhule preferred to reach consensus with Fitterer before taking a plan to Tepper, describing the process as "collaborative." That differs from another team source, who said Rhule's leadership style was to "wear everybody out" until he got his way, even in big groups, and sometimes operated impulsively. In this case, Rhule was willing to overlook Darnold's well-documented problems with turnovers and accuracy.

"It was Darnold, Darnold, Darnold [for Rhule] that offseason," a front office source said.

[Samppson]

Interesting article for sure. I have long said, If I had to guess if Matt Rhule looks back on his Panther's tenure, the decision he probably regrets the most is not trading up to get Herbert. It sounds like everyone loved Herbert in that building, you have to go and get your guy and take the risk, otherwise you really stand no chance at holding the coaching position long term. Granted, Rhule may have botched coaching/developing Herbert, but I feel like a new head coach has to take a shot on a young QB when they get the job, so they can use that honeymoon period to develop him. Then a few years in when you are seriously going to be graded, you should have a rising QB winning you games.

[Mr. Scot]

The fifth year option...

Fitterer's logic on the option, per a front office source, was this: The two-year payout would be reasonable, considering Darnold's $4.7 million due in 2021, and he'd be much more expensive if he lit up the field that season. Tepper, per a team source, questioned placing that value on Darnold so early in his relationship with the team but "reluctantly" approved, a source with direct knowledge of the negotiations said.

For a moment, it appeared Carolina had pushed the right buttons. Darnold started his Panthers career with a victory over the Jets, and the team won its next two games to push Carolina to 3-0 for the first time in six years. It would represent the high point of the Rhule era.

The team would lose five of its next six games, a stretch that saw Darnold throw four touchdown passes to 10 interceptions before injuring his throwing shoulder. The Panthers' subpar offensive line and running back Christian McCaffrey's Week 3 injury contributed to Darnold's struggles. But the New York version of Darnold, hiding under the surface, finally bubbled.

"It went from a decent setup to WTF," said a team source of the offense's descent. As the losses mounted, Tepper's blood boiled, with one front office source describing him as "furious" over the way Darnold's fifth-year option hung over the franchise. (A source close to the owner said the "furious" characterization was too strong).

[Mr. Scot]

Confirming something we'd already heard elsewhere...

Tepper had a predilection for tracking social media mentions and media reports on his team, multiple sources said. One front office source described his approach as "stream of consciousness," unafraid to vent to confidantes about his frustrations with the team -- including quarterback play.
 

[Manna]

Fitt wanting Trubisky? lol. 

Imagine if Rhule had listened to Hurney about Herbert. Both of them would probably still have a job with the Panthers. 

[Mr. Scot]

Newton, and a confirmation of something many suspected...

Even before Darnold's injury, one former member of Rhule's staff noted how the organization's support of the quarterback grew increasingly tepid, and reports about a possible quarterback change were not firmly dismissed.

"A quarterback has to feel like he's the most important guy in the building, and I don't think those guys ever felt that way," said the staff member of the benched quarterbacks. "They [Rhule and the Panthers] were always looking for something better. Zero patience."

"Something better" was in the eye of the beholder, and following Darnold's injury the gaze would become fixed on Newton, the former No. 1 overall pick who had led the Panthers to Super Bowl 50 in 2015. Newton had been released by the New England Patriots, with the shoulder injury suffered in the final year of his first stint in Carolina causing him to lose much of the zip on his throws. Rhule hadn't wanted Newton two years earlier, but the Panthers had limited options and hoped his leadership would help a young team.

While team sources say Newton was an ideal teammate and "worked his ass off" to master the offense, the Panthers would go 0-5 with him as the starter. Darnold would be back behind center before the end of a 5-12 season that placed the entire organization in the crosshairs entering 2022.

[pantherj]

Fitt comes off as spineless in light of this new information. Talk about getting dominated and pushed around.