FMIA: Tanking shouldn’t be a dirty word

[ForJimmy]

Tanking in the NFL is just selling off your vet players and acquiring draft picks. You are focused on your future not the present. If players have mild injuries you sit them and don’t risk them trying to play through it. Keep them healthier for the future. No one is expecting the players or staff to literally not try to win. We are just no longer in win now mode. 

[NAS]

11 minutes ago, Growl said:

“Trevor Lawrence is proof tanking doesn’t work”

“if there were a sure fire QB, it’d make sense”

pick one lol 

If Trevor Lawrence was on this team it’s probably a playoff team. Jags have too many other holes. It’s pretty stupid to say it doesn’t work. You can build around s franchise QB, but you can’t win without one no matter how good you are at everything else

[DaveThePanther2008]

7 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Tanking in the NFL is just selling off your vet players and acquiring draft picks. You are focused on your future not the present. If players have mild injuries you sit them and don’t risk them trying to play through it. Keep them healthier for the future. No one is expecting the players or staff to literally not try to win. We are just no longer in win now mode. 

i usually see eye to eye with you but, I think we may have signed Foreman with the knowledge that we might trade CMC later in the year. 

We gained several picks that will help this team if we use those picks correctly.  

We ran the ball extremely well yesterday and if that formula works as the season progresses signing Foreman was a brilliant move.  If PJ can move the ball like he did yesterday and doesn't make a ton of mistakes we have a defense that can help us win.  That's our goal to win, If we make it over .500 we could actually be looking at our 1st back to back winning seasons next year.

For the record, who's our top QB in this draft?  Who is Mr. Franchise?

[davos]

41 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Its the nfl, teams like us are going to win a few games.  Thats just the nature of this league.  My frustration with these (mostly) aliases is that they dont acknowledge wtf are we going to do next year at qb if we dont draft someone?  You rolling out pj again?  fug that. You signing some jag off the street?  You trading for someone?   At some point we have to bite the bullet and draft a guy in the first.  Its inevitable.

Yup.  I'd say it's a near lock we are drafting a QB Round 1 regardless of where we land this season. It's just a matter of how mad we choose to become as fans on a week-to-week basis in respect to the tankathon sweeps because there's not much we can really do about it other than bitch about the draft position.    

It would have been helpful if the Bucs weren't straight up trash right now.  If TB loses Thursday, we clean out ATL and are in first next week, yeah, then let's dive more into this but a loss next week, we're at 2-6, with the Ravens, Bengals, Seahawks on deck.   

[ForJimmy]

2 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

i usually see eye to eye with you but, I think we may have signed Foreman with the knowledge that we might trade CMC later in the year. 

We gained several picks that will help this team if we use those picks correctly.  

We ran the ball extremely well yesterday and if that formula works as the season progresses signing Foreman was a brilliant move.  If PJ can move the ball like he did yesterday and doesn't make a ton of mistakes we have a defense that can help us win.  That's our goal to win, If we make it over .500 we could actually be looking at our 1st back to back winning seasons next year.

For the record, who's our top QB in this draft?  Who is Mr. Franchise?

So you think we are in "win now" mode?  That we traded away 2 vet players (one arguable one of the best at his position) for future picks while taking a huge dead cap hit this year because we wanted their backups to play more?  If we thought Foreman was our best shot all year why did he have so little reps up until this game?  We also didn't go into the season things PJ Walker was the guy to take us to the playoffs.  

It's a 3 horse race for the top QB right now between Stroud, Levis, and Young.  It probably depends which coaches/teams have which picks and how those players fit into their system.  There is also a lot of football left.  I don't think we are "tanking" to acquire a certain one.  We are just concentrating on our future right now vs our present.  We are almost certainly drafting a QB because we are working on the future not the present right now.  Fitt has already mentioned he thinks the best way to acquire a QB is to draft your guy and develop him.  

[ColumbusCounty]

Tank is not a dirty word?? Lol ... maybe not but it definitely has long lasting effects and consequences if caught. 

And while probably suprised, If Tepper wanted to tank, McAdoo would have been named head coach. 

You cant tell grown men playing for their future to tank. 

Or expect an interim who may not get another chance to head coach to do the same. 

That's VERY hard to accomplish. Unless you stash half the squad on IR. Hell, I'd assume half the players hate the draft anyway. As while the influx "could" make a team better..it also pushes out the previous. 

One of the reason we won: After trading CMC, the message put out by sports media and social media lit a fire in that locker room. 

Idunno but if I'm a player I'm not playing to lose intentionally. Study film all week and practice just to purposely let the man down next to me while taking repeated hits to the body for 60 minutes/3 hours. Now while I understand the fuel for the ultimate goal, nothing is set in stone either way. Let the cards fall as they will. No matter where you stand on the spectrum, you shouldn't be targeted though. It's still just ur individual opinion at the end of the day. 

I'm just saying ...We have a #1, #3 overall, a 3rd rounder and an UDFA listed as our Qb's currently. Which one is currently the starter?

I just think it's too many variables for that mindset.

[DaveThePanther2008]

6 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

So you think we are in "win now" mode?  That we traded away 2 vet players (one arguable one of the best at his position) for future picks while taking a huge dead cap hit this year because we wanted their backups to play more?  If we thought Foreman was our best shot all year why did he have so little reps up until this game?  We also didn't go into the season things PJ Walker was the guy to take us to the playoffs.  

It's a 3 horse race for the top QB right now between Stroud, Levis, and Young.  It probably depends which coaches/teams have which picks and how those players fit into their system.  There is also a lot of football left.  I don't think we are "tanking" to acquire a certain one.  We are just concentrating on our future right now vs our present.  We are almost certainly drafting a QB because we are working on the future not the present right now.  Fitt has already mentioned he thinks the best way to acquire a QB is to draft your guy and develop him.  

Win now? IDK but I do know they are trying to win now.  It's not too late to turn this season around. Teams have won the Super Bowl with a game manager.  Not saying we are there yet, but anything is possible.  

As a far as Foreman getting reps you'll have to ask Rhule.  While you're at it ask why Bozeman wasn't starting. We didn't go into the season thinking Walker was the guy but we didn't go into the season in 2003 thinking Jake was the man.  Stranger things have happened.  I will say that if we can sustain drives and point some points on the board our defense can hold their end of the bargain.  Our defense has played well most of the games but because the offense couldn't stay on the field they gassed out.

I really like this defense and defense wins championships.  I know it is a huge long shot but like I said stranger things have happened.   I guess I am not in the position now to give up on the season.  Never have.  I've always held out hope until we were mathematically eliminated.  In the NFC South this year that won't happen until the end of December. 

[ForJimmy]

8 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Win now? IDK but I do know they are trying to win now.  It's not too late to turn this season around. Teams have won the Super Bowl with a game manager.  Not saying we are there yet, but anything is possible.  

As a far as Foreman getting reps you'll have to ask Rhule.  While you're at it ask why Bozeman wasn't starting. We didn't go into the season thinking Walker was the guy but we didn't go into the season in 2003 thinking Jake was the man.  Stranger things have happened.  I will say that if we can sustain drives and point some points on the board our defense can hold their end of the bargain.  Our defense has played well most of the games but because the offense couldn't stay on the field they gassed out.

I really like this defense and defense wins championships.  I know it is a huge long shot but like I said stranger things have happened.   I guess I am not in the position now to give up on the season.  Never have.  I've always held out hope until we were mathematically eliminated.  In the NFC South this year that won't happen until the end of December. 

I love the optimism and yes the coaches and players are always in win now mode as they get paid to win games.  The front office/organization as a whole is not.  They are preparing for the future by selling off vets to the highest bidders.  It's how NFL teams "tank."  

[GEM]

1 hour ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

We've got the best defense in our division and can beat everyone left on our schedule.  If we played like we did yesterday, who knows what will happen. 

Yep!  If this team keeps developing and wins the division and who knows what else. Would people be very proud of them or hate them for winning? I would be very proud and happy.  I hope I am seeing something good happening. I am pulling for THIS coaching staff and TEAM.  WINNING? That is what I WANT! This is the last thing I am saying about playing to lose and worrying about draft place. I think I also should stay off social media. 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

I love the optimism and yes the coaches and players are always in win now mode as they get paid to win games.  The front office/organization as a whole is not.  They are preparing for the future by selling off vets to the highest bidders.  It's how NFL teams "tank."  

I wouldn't bet on anybody else outside of maybe Shaq getting traded off.

[TheSpecialJuan]

yay

[Captroop]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

I couldn’t even get through one sentence of this before I realized how flawed your opinion is, or just stupidly arrogant

since you’re trying to move the goalposts into the realm of the nonsensical to try and validate your absurd stance that it’s better to pick 14 instead of 1, let’s lay out what is actually being said:

nobody thinks that draft picks are assured. What is assured, and what is mathematically proven, is that you need a talented QB to win Super Bowls and that the best place to find that QB relative to every other spot in the draft is at the top.

whatever other garbage you’ve added on to distort the argument because you know in your heart that you’re making an emotional plea and working backwards to support it as opposed to an intellectual one isn’t fooling or resonating with anyone here

Google "Classic Projection"

 

How is it intellectual to say "tank for the #1 QB" when you have no basis to say that's a formula for success? Let's look at the talented QBs in recent memory:

XLVII			Baltimore 34, San Francisco 31 - Flacco Pick #18
XLVIII			Seattle 43, Denver 8 - Wilson - Round 3
XLIX			New England 28, Seattle 24 - Brady - Round 6
50			Denver 24, Carolina 10 - Manning - Free Agency
LI			New England 34, Atlanta 28 - Brady - Round 6
LII			Philadelphia 41, New England 33 - Foles - Round 3
LIII			New England 13, Los Angeles Rams 3 - Brady - Round 6
LIV			Kansas City 31, San Francisco 20 - Mahomes - Pick #10
LV			Tampa Bay 31, Kansas City 9 - Brady - Free Agency
LVI			Los Angeles Rams 23, Cincinnati 20 - Stafford - Free Agency

 

So go ahead, intellectually explain how tanking for the #1 QB is the super duper sure-fire smart solution. If you want a stud QB who will get you a title, buy one in free agency. Get Lamar.

If you want to develop a winning talented QB, odds are he's not the first QB off the board.

[ForJimmy]

14 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

I wouldn't bet on anybody else outside of maybe Shaq getting traded off.

Shaq is the last one that makes sense.  Vet on a large contract.  The rest are young building blocks for our future.  Maybe Erving or random depth vets for a cheap return.  

[Growl]

12 minutes ago, Captroop said:

Google "Classic Projection"

 

How is it intellectual to say "tank for the #1 QB" when you have no basis to say that's a formula for success? Let's look at the talented QBs in recent memory:

XLVII			Baltimore 34, San Francisco 31 - Flacco Pick #18
XLVIII			Seattle 43, Denver 8 - Wilson - Round 3
XLIX			New England 28, Seattle 24 - Brady - Round 6
50			Denver 24, Carolina 10 - Manning - Free Agency
LI			New England 34, Atlanta 28 - Brady - Round 6
LII			Philadelphia 41, New England 33 - Foles - Round 3
LIII			New England 13, Los Angeles Rams 3 - Brady - Round 6
LIV			Kansas City 31, San Francisco 20 - Mahomes - Pick #10
LV			Tampa Bay 31, Kansas City 9 - Brady - Free Agency
LVI			Los Angeles Rams 23, Cincinnati 20 - Stafford - Free Agency

 

So go ahead, intellectually explain how tanking for the #1 QB is the super duper sure-fire smart solution. If you want a stud QB who will get you a title, buy one in free agency. Get Lamar.

If you want to develop a winning talented QB, odds are he's not the first QB off the board.

lol did you just try to pass off Stafford and Manning as mere free agent acquisitions and not the #1 overall pick they are? What about the other QB in those games? Or is your plan to trade to spot #199 to lock down our elite QB prospect there

you don’t desire to have an intellectual conversation, and you’ve made this plainly clear not just with this post but your overall sentiment: if you Culture Win people would simply admit it’s an emotional plea then I could at least respect your stance, “I know elite QBs get drafted high, I know it’s not the smart thing to do, but I just want my instant gratification so bad I can’t root for a loss.”

i could respect that. but to twist and reject what is plainly documented and try to present the argument as an intellectual is an insulting to other posters here.

 

Edited October 24, 2022 by Growl