FMIA: Tanking shouldn’t be a dirty word

[Zappy]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

All kinds of stupid in here.

One last time for the guys in the back. Just last year we were 4-3 with CMC and 1-9 without him.

Never contributed to winning. Either stop being a troll or stop being dumb. Pick one.

We went 5-11 in his best season

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

Chiefs and Bills are playing to win now.  Do you see them trading away vets for draft picks?  We are not playing to win now, as our main concern is the future which includes draft picks.  Getting the picks for CMC solidifies we are not focused on winning now from a front office perspective.  It we do then great!  Our main concern is developing young talent and securing more draft capital to continue building.  

I don't necessarily believe this.  CMC is a great player but it was a win/win for us and the Niners.  they got a chance to make a move and we got the opportunity to get extra picks in the coming draft.  It is still TBD if Foreman and Hubbard can pick the slack up.  Yesterday they did.  We'll see in the next couple of game.   If the can than the move was great for us and still gives us a chance to compete. 

 

[Growl]

2 hours ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Rebuild mode got it.  

The conversation started with LOSING games or not trying to win games so we can get the coveted 1st pick in the draft.  The tankers in this conversation keep changing the perimeters to enhance their position.  

How do you rebuild? 1 through 4 above.  That still doesn't guarantee that we will lose enough games to get the top pick.

nobody here is changing their position, we just aren’t as stupid as you wish everyone was to have a dishonest discussion with someone who has declared that any stat that confronts him as inconvenient as not being a statistic that should be considered 

nobody here is buying your shtick bro. 
 

“here’s all the QBs who have panned out relevant to draft position”

”let’s not discuss that, let’s look at this niche field of subject matter across this narrow window that I’ve selected for us to observe”

insults against others on here don’t bother me in the slightest, but you melted down when you realized that the posters here were too inconveniently intelligent to fall for your cherry picked stat which quite hilariously didn’t even reinforce your position as those Super Bowls were filled with former #1 overall picks, and that’s some real amateur forum maneuvering right there

Edited October 24, 2022 by Growl

[roaddog96]

I think about the 2002 and 2011 and realized we went opposite directions in terms of the draft and got to the same result. In the '02 draft, it was David Carr (the franchise, can't miss QB prospect that happens every draft season) that went at 1 and we had to choose to get either Peppers (BPA) or Joey Harrington (need & the number 2 QB prospect). That time, we went best player available and took Peppers 1st, Foster in the 2nd, Will Witherspoon in the 3rd, and Dante Wesley in the 4th. Two years later, we were in the Super Bowl, and all those picks mentioned were a factor in getting there. In 2011, we went with need instead of perceived BPA Cam instead of Von Miller, 4 years later, we were in the Super Bowl. No player outside of Cam drafted in 2011 by us was a factor, but Cam was a supernova that year. We don't have to tank to get the best players in a draft if we do the scouting and make the right picks (staying put, moving up, moving down, that's the part TBD based off the rest of the year). The CMC trade is a good thing overall, now we just have to nail the picks we have in the upcoming draft, regardless of the spot. Pick a direction with the new coach and get what you need to make their vision reality. 

[ForJimmy]

25 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

We may not be searching for that one piece to make a difference, but we have several young players to build around offensively and defensively.  You don't trade those away just for draft picks.  It makes no sense especially when they are the caliber of Horn, Chinn, Burns and Brown. All of these players are on their rookie contract. 

No you don't trade away young talented players on rookie deals for picks because one is a sure thing for the same money.

[DaveThePanther2008]

11 minutes ago, Growl said:

nobody here is changing their position, we just aren’t as stupid as you wish everyone was to have a dishonest discussion with someone who has declared that any stat that confronts him as inconvenient as not being a statistic that should be considered 

nobody here is buying your shtick bro. 
 

“here’s all the QBs who have panned out relevant to draft position”

”let’s not discuss that, let’s look at this niche field of subject matter across this narrow window that I’ve selected for us to observe”

insults against others on here don’t bother me in the slightest, but you melted down when you realized that the posters here were too inconveniently intelligent to fall for your cherry picked stat which quite hilariously didn’t even reinforce your position as those Super Bowls were filled with former #1 overall picks, and that’s some real amateur forum maneuvering right there

I've insulted?  You better go look who call who a moron.

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.  You now as usual change the perimeters.  Now it's QBs that played in the SB.  Maybe next you'll switch to Conference Championship games.

See the thing is.  The Panthers aren't tanking in any form that you want to portrait.  So who's right and who's wrong.   Just because you got a couple of bandwagon friends that think they know more than everyone else doesn't make you right. 

 

[Growl]

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I've insulted?  You better go look who call who a moron.

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.  You now as usual change the perimeters.  Now it's QBs that played in the SB.  Maybe next you'll switch to Conference Championship games.

See the thing is.  The Panthers aren't tanking in any form that you want to portrait.  So who's right and who's wrong.   Just because you got a couple of bandwagon friends that think they know more than everyone else doesn't make you right. 

 

okay buddy keep your eyes on that cave wall

[mrcompletely11]

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

 

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.

 

thats not even remotely close to what we were discussing

[DaveThePanther2008]

I'm done arguing with people that don't listen to what others have to say.  

You guys think we should Tank, in whatever fashion you believe, then so be it.  

Bottom line this team is not going to tank anytime soon so we can have a questionable #1 draft pick that 3 years down the road we are right back where we started. 

This team will fight for every win whether it's 1 or 10 more.  We'll worry about the draft slot we get after the season.

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 minute ago, mrcompletely11 said:

thats not even remotely close to what we were discussing

BS, when it started it was about getting a QB to win the big one.  That Franchise QB that everyone thinks is in this draft.   Please stop.

Just let it go, I have, I'm done arguing with you guys because you want to be right, but you're not. 

We have 1 week, if we trade away talent before then, then maybe but otherwise this team is going to fight for a playoff spot until we are eliminated from that said spot. 

[mrcompletely11]

2 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I'm done arguing with people that don't listen to what others have to say.  

You guys think we should Tank, in whatever fashion you believe, then so be it.  

Bottom line this team is not going to tank anytime soon so we can have a questionable #1 draft pick that 3 years down the road we are right back where we started. 

This team will fight for every win whether it's 1 or 10 more.  We'll worry about the draft slot we get after the season.

Thats like the 3rd post where you said you were done

[ForJimmy]

6 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I've insulted?  You better go look who call who a moron.

The argument was winning QBs in the SB.  You now as usual change the perimeters.  Now it's QBs that played in the SB.  Maybe next you'll switch to Conference Championship games.

See the thing is.  The Panthers aren't tanking in any form that you want to portrait.  So who's right and who's wrong.   Just because you got a couple of bandwagon friends that think they know more than everyone else doesn't make you right. 

 

Winning QBs in the Super Bowl?  Why not just sign Foles or Flacco then as I am sure they will be available this offseason?  People get hung up on just winning the big game.  We want sustained success like the Bills, Chiefs, Bengals (are starting to get), Packers/Saints (previously had), Steelers and similar franchises.  The Steelers had Big Ben retire and immediately drafted a QB in the first even with a weak class (maybe he is the answer maybe not, but they are probably going to keep trying until they get their guy).  

They all have or had elite QBs that they drafted.  Sure you can pull an Eagles and win with a great team or the Broncos and win with an elite defense, but those teams missed the playoffs afterwards and fired their coaches.  Broncos are so desperate to find their QB they threw away a draft and huge money at Russ.  SB victories are going to be a tough measurement as Tom Brady has such a large portion of them.  We want sustained success and not to be the franchise constantly talking about the Super Bowl we won however many years ago.  

[poundaway]

56 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Who should Tepper have chosen?  It was between Wilks and McAdoo and McAdoo was fielding the worst offense in the NFL.  I think WIlks was the best candidate and gives them the best chance to win.  Tepper even came down to the locker room and gave Wilks the game ball.  I'm ok with a 5 win team because we are "tanking" or building for the future.  We are trading away picks to acquire CJ Henderson, Shenault, or Gilmore.  Out focus is developing our young talent, resetting the salary cap (2023 takes the big hit and 2024 is wide open), and collecting draft picks.  Throw in a high 1st round pick QB and I think we are headed in the right direction.  

Tabor won games as an interim in Chicago and his unit was producing.

I guess people define tanking differently.  

Heres pnp on tanking

 

[Zappy]

5 minutes ago, stbugs said:

We had Teddy, Darnold and Mayfield as his QBs. We had one of the worst OLs in the league until the last few weeks. We completely gutted our D from 2019 and started over. Stop acting like CMC was a bad player. It’s just stupid.

Excuses .. and Cam had a bare cupboard in NE and had Rhule last year but Cam's done .. it can't go both ways.

CMC with all the excuses. No. You got rid of CMC and then beat Brady that isn't a coincidence.