FMIA: Tanking shouldn’t be a dirty word

[DaveThePanther2008]

2 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Did you understand a single thing I wrote? I’m truly saddened at the intelligence level out there now.

Why did we trade CMC? Be honest. He was our best player. Don’t give the Foreman and Hubbard are really better. People wanted Hubbard released before we played the pathetic Bucs.

I’ll repeat this one more time and please read it very slowly.

1. Tanking means you are trying to lower your talent level with trades to obtain future talent in extra draft picks.

2. Tanking also means not going FA crazy in the off-season to save cap for rollover.

3. Tanking does NOT mean telling your coaches and players to try to lose games.

4. Tanking also does NOT mean putting guys on IR when the season is basically over. That’s coaches/GMs CYA to have a bit of an excuse to not get fired.

Rebuild mode got it.  

The conversation started with LOSING games or not trying to win games so we can get the coveted 1st pick in the draft.  The tankers in this conversation keep changing the perimeters to enhance their position.  

How do you rebuild? 1 through 4 above.  That still doesn't guarantee that we will lose enough games to get the top pick.

[ForJimmy]

10 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

I get that, but you don't do it by purposely throwing games.  If we traded Burns and Shaq and DJ than we'd probably lose all our games regardless of how hard we try.  Right now, we traded a big money RB for several picks.   So far that's it.  

Until we do that, this team is still trying to win as many games as they can.  Why can't anyone see that.  Do you really think that the players want to give up.  Do you think Wilks will go along with trying to lose and lose any chance ever again at being a HC? 

Yep.  You are either developing and building for the future or in win now mode.  We are not in win now mode as we are not looking to trade for a missing piece or two from a team building for the future.  Teams building for the future will trade away vet players to teams in win now mode.  As we are the ones trading away our players we are building for our future.  

[Captroop]

7 minutes ago, NAS said:

May be the dumbest thing I ever read

It's a simple question. What do you want?

If we tank, and you get the QB of your dreams, what would make it worth it?

You and growl are intellectuals. You have a clear picture in your mind of what will happen if we tank and get the best QB in the draft this year. So, what is it?

[ForJimmy]

4 minutes ago, DaveThePanther2008 said:

Rebuild mode got it.  

The conversation started with LOSING games or not trying to win games so we can get the coveted 1st pick in the draft.  The tankers in this conversation keep changing the perimeters to enhance their position.  

How do you rebuild? 1 through 4 above.  That still doesn't guarantee that we will lose enough games to get the top pick.

Chiefs and Bills are playing to win now.  Do you see them trading away vets for draft picks?  We are not playing to win now, as our main concern is the future which includes draft picks.  Getting the picks for CMC solidifies we are not focused on winning now from a front office perspective.  It we do then great!  Our main concern is developing young talent and securing more draft capital to continue building.  

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

11 minutes ago, Sir Purr said:

Damn, some of you guys are a miserable lot and actually deserve the team you have gotten the last few years. Wallow in the misery that you wanted. This team has not, and will not quit no matter how much you draft nerds beg for it.  

No we don't

Tankerchads deserve a 2 win team and pick of the litter.

Homers deserve their constant mediocre team and the """""winning culture"""" meme so they can boast about how the panthers totally "turned it around" once a month until the sun explodes.

Edited October 24, 2022 by Sean Payton's Vicodin

[45catfan]

How about in the is context: 'Go tank yourself' or' you mother tanker' or 'you stink like tank'.  Is it a dirty word now?

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, 45catfan said:

How about in the is context: 'Go tank yourself' or' you mother tanker' or 'you stink like tank'.  Is it a dirty word now?

I love it when you talk dirty you filthy little tank...

[poundaway]

1 hour ago, Growl said:

lol did you just try to pass off Stafford and Manning as mere free agent acquisitions and not the #1 overall pick they are? What about the other QB in those games? Or is your plan to trade to spot #199 to lock down our elite QB prospect there

you don’t desire to have an intellectual conversation, and you’ve made this plainly clear not just with this post but your overall sentiment: if you Culture Win people would simply admit it’s an emotional plea then I could at least respect your stance, “I know elite QBs get drafted high, I know it’s not the smart thing to do, but I just want my instant gratification so bad I can’t root for a loss.”

i could respect that. but to twist and reject what is plainly documented and try to present the argument as an intellectual is an insulting to other posters here.

 

Stafford was not drafted by the Rams.  The Rams did not tank for Stafford.

The Manning brothers are the only 2 SB champions in the last 20 years whose teams tanked for them.  The rest of the SB champion QBs were acquired via FA, trade, trading up in the draft or were a later pick.

Tepper and Fit are trying to tank by choosing a coach who has successfully tanked before, and trading away CMC. 

But Wilks is learning this time, and they are going to have to get rid of more than CMC to change that.   We were 5 wins the past two years, mostly without CMC.

[ForJimmy]

3 minutes ago, poundaway said:

Stafford was not drafted by the Rams.  The Rams did not tank for Stafford.

The Manning brothers are the only 2 SB champions in the last 20 years whose teams tanked for them.  The rest of the SB champion QBs were acquired via FA, trade, trading up in the draft or were a later pick.

Tepper and Fit are trying to tank by choosing a coach who has successfully tanked before, and trading away CMC. 

But Wilks is learning this time, and they are going to have to get rid of more than CMC to change that.   We were 5 wins the past two years, mostly without CMC.

Wilks never "tanked" before in the way you are describing.  He had a bad team with a rookie QB (Rosen) who was proven he doesn't belong in this league so yeah he struggled to win.  Why would he tank as a first year coach with a rookie first round QB??  He was fired after one year because they struggled which was not by design.  

I mean last year we started off 3-0 with CMC so I don't see how our 5 wins last year were mostly without him?

[NAS]

10 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Tanking is rebuilding, people keep calling it intentionally throwing a game. I feel like if we did a find an replace of tanking and made it rebuild, there would be a lot less issues. There’s no guarantees for anything. You can’t rebuild based on guarantees so you just build up the picks and cap space you can get. SF could win the SB if they get healthy or they lose Jimmy G and fall apart. Our schedule is easy and full of a lot of QB needy teams, so who know what QBs will have available.

I think I need a break from these fuging Ads. It’s so annoying to have to close something in order to read what you are typing like right fuging now. 

I thought it was just me. Is @Zodthis desperate for ad revenue that we have to deal with this crap?

[poundaway]

2 minutes ago, ForJimmy said:

Wilks never "tanked" before in the way you are describing.  He had a bad team with a rookie QB (Rosen) who was proven he doesn't belong in this league so yeah he struggled to win.  Why would he tank as a first year coach with a rookie first round QB??  He was fired after one year because they struggled which was not by design.  

I mean last year we started off 3-0 with CMC so I don't see how our 5 wins last year were mostly without him?

Exactly.   Tepper chose Wilks because even when he was trying to win,  he created the absolute worst team in the league.  Even the vet QB Bradford had his worst stats in Wilks' O.  The D was atrocious with some talent on it.  Wilks took an 8-8 team and made them worst in the league.

In 2020 CMC played in 3 games.  We lost all 3.  The 5 wins were other games. 

In 2021,  CMC's record was driven more by easy teams on the schedule than by CMC turning the tide.

This year, CMC played in 5 games, We won 1.

LIke it or not, we are looking at another 5 win-ish season, even with CMC gone.  If you consider 5 wins tanking, we've already been doing that.

[weyco2000]

1 hour ago, stbugs said:

SMH. Do you guys really not know what tanking is? Tanking is not signing FAs and trading away guys like Jamal Adams for 2 1sts. WTF do you think we traded CMC for?

For the last time, tanking <> players trying to lose a game. It’s getting rid of your top players (usually the higher priced ones, not cheap rookies or guys at key spots) for picks and not spending FA money to roll it over when you’ve added draft talent.  

When the Dolphins traded away Tunsil, Fitzpatrick and others for picks, was that not tanking?

It’s amazing that people can’t grasp the concept of trading away talent or not signing a QB to let Clausen or Weinke get you a top pick.

The Jets traded Adams in the off-season (July 25th) because he requested it. They picked up his 5th year option and he threatened to sit out until he received an extension. 
 

As for CMC, it seemed like he requested a trade or approved of it. Win, win for both parties. Definitely not tanking, ask Brady…

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, poundaway said:

Exactly.   Tepper chose Wilks because even when he was trying to win,  he created the absolute worst team in the league.  Even the vet QB Bradford had his worst stats in Wilks' O.  The D was atrocious with some talent on it.  Wilks took an 8-8 team and made them worst in the league.

In 2020 CMC played in 3 games.  We lost all 3.  The 5 wins were other games. 

In 2021,  CMC's record was driven more by easy teams on the schedule than by CMC turning the tide.

This year, CMC played in 5 games, We won 1.

LIke it or not, we are looking at another 5 win-ish season, even with CMC gone.  If you consider 5 wins tanking, we've already been doing that.

Who should Tepper have chosen?  It was between Wilks and McAdoo and McAdoo was fielding the worst offense in the NFL.  I think WIlks was the best candidate and gives them the best chance to win.  Tepper even came down to the locker room and gave Wilks the game ball.  I'm ok with a 5 win team because we are "tanking" or building for the future.  We are trading away picks to acquire CJ Henderson, Shenault, or Gilmore.  Out focus is developing our young talent, resetting the salary cap (2023 takes the big hit and 2024 is wide open), and collecting draft picks.  Throw in a high 1st round pick QB and I think we are headed in the right direction.  

[DaveThePanther2008]

1 hour ago, ForJimmy said:

Yep.  You are either developing and building for the future or in win now mode.  We are not in win now mode as we are not looking to trade for a missing piece or two from a team building for the future.  Teams building for the future will trade away vet players to teams in win now mode.  As we are the ones trading away our players we are building for our future.  

We may not be searching for that one piece to make a difference, but we have several young players to build around offensively and defensively.  You don't trade those away just for draft picks.  It makes no sense especially when they are the caliber of Horn, Chinn, Burns and Brown. All of these players are on their rookie contract.