Panthers pass protection

[JawnyBlaze]

The Athletic had an article ranking teams’ pass protection. Panthers are #6, which is very good, but terrible in one regard:

The first column is percentage of pass plays that pressure is allowed, we’re #6. The second column is percentage of pressures that result in a sack. We’re last. I put that on the QBs. Baker always seemed to try to evade pressure right into the defenders arms.  The last column is total pressures allowed. 

[BrianS]

I see no negatives there for next year.  Not getting rid of the ball under pressure is on the QB.

This is how you build a team.  Our mistake was our desire to keep looking on the trash heap for a QB.  If we had just picked a QB we'd be far better off - even if he flopped!  All those picks are not irrelevant.

Put a promising rookie QB behind this line and it won't take long to figure out what you've got.  There won't be any excuses about the protection.  Just plug him in and see what he's got.

Oh, and a real OC.  That'd be nice too.

[Sgt Schultz]

One problem with a QB who runs around on passing plays is the OL has no way to know where he is or where he is going to set blocks and protect him. 

With Mayfield, everybody on planet earth knows his best play is from play action or a designed rollout, the latter of which helps the OL set the blocks.  Everybody on planet earth except Ben McAdoo.

Mayfield is not going to make anybody forget about John Elway, but having an OC that actually put him in a position to play to his strengths might help.  But, that is all pretty much water under the bridge as they will both be gone after week 17.

The OL may be the position group I feel best about.  Unfortunately, the QB group is the one I feel worst about, except that all but Corral will be gone along with McAdoo.

[bigdog10]

I feel like our offensive line success is a bit of a mirage at this point due to the scheme of quick passes and lack of deep shots. 
 

I don’t think our line is as big as a strength as everyone thinks it is. it’s definitely better than last year but I don’t think it’s a top ten line. 

[AlphabetsEnd]

44 minutes ago, JawnyBlaze said:

The Athletic had an article ranking teams’ pass protection. Panthers are #6, which is very good, but terrible in one regard:

The first column is percentage of pass plays that pressure is allowed, we’re #6. The second column is percentage of pressures that result in a sack. We’re last. I put that on the QBs. Baker always seemed to try to evade pressure right into the defenders arms.  The last column is total pressures allowed. 

I think your interpretation is the exact opposite of what I see happening on game film. I have watched every offensive snap this season between 4-6 times (some more), and the sack rate should be higher, but Mayfield/PJ evading pressure has made the pass protection stats better then that. The line should be giving up a few more sacks per game if not for QB escapability. 

The line play has been better than expected, but on 3rd downs and obvious passing downs they give up vital sacks, often the pocket collapsing from both strong and weak sides, with pressure up the middle as well, making stepping up into the pocket impossible.  Of course, the oline's ability to block and the QB vacating the pocket is also a factor of receivers being open or note, routes, etc. When the QB sees no one open, the pocket collapsing they scramble, and then sacks can happen. 

Icky is developing fast though. 

The more film I watch the less I trust the analytics floating around.

[JawnyBlaze]

4 minutes ago, AlphabetsEnd said:

I think your interpretation is the exact opposite of what I see happening on game film. I have watched every offensive snap this season between 4-6 times (some more), and the sack rate should be higher, but Mayfield/PJ evading pressure has made the pass protection stats better then that. The line should be giving up a few more sacks per game if not for QB escapability. 

The line play has been better than expected, but on 3rd downs and obvious passing downs they give up vital sacks, often the pocket collapsing from both strong and weak sides, with pressure up the middle as well, making stepping up into the pocket impossible.  Of course, the oline's ability to block and the QB vacating the pocket is also a factor of receivers being open or note, routes, etc. When the QB sees no one open, the pocket collapsing they scramble, and then sacks can happen. 

Icky is developing fast though. 

The more film I watch the less I trust the analytics floating around.

My eye test agrees with the analytics in this case. Seems like every time there’s pressure Mayfield would lean into it and fall over. 

[Ornias]

Baker was rolling out of clean pockets way too many times. 

[mc52beast]

This stat doesn’t tell the whole story. When it’s an obvious passing down we are giving up pressures and sacks. O-line is much better than last year but we aren’t as good as people think

[rayzor]

Baker can't handle pressure. He's not the QB we were sold on.

Give me any of the top 3-4 QBs in the draft next year over this guy and behind this OL.

[LinvilleGorge]

When you're #6 in number of pressures allowed and percentage of snaps with pressure allowed and dead last in sacks allowed... yeah, it's QB position.

[AlphabetsEnd]

3 hours ago, JawnyBlaze said:

My eye test agrees with the analytics in this case. Seems like every time there’s pressure Mayfield would lean into it and fall over. 

I don't agree, but this still made me laugh. 

[AlphabetsEnd]

49 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

When you're #6 in number of pressures allowed and percentage of snaps with pressure allowed and dead last in sacks allowed... yeah, it's QB position.

Except it's not. Go watch the plays, watch the protections, watch the coverages, who is (not) open in the progression, who is even lookin back to the QB to allow a dump off, if the defense is man or zone, and if it's man, how much separation do the receivers have (little based on the film), then look at OLine and Dline, who is getting beat or missing their assignment, who is not getting picked up, is the pocket holding or collapsing, or is the olin moving or failing to move with the rollout, or in the case of several sacks moving into the QBs escape route to scramble. 

I'm confident in my stances on the offense because I've watched more game film than is healthy this season. It's easy to blame the QB, and even easier to blame Mayfield, but...

 ... go watch the game film from last week with PJ/Eason, we see the same stuff. Good pass blocking at times, then blowing protections. Recall, why was PJ out at the end? A free blitzer went untouched and murdered him. Not a single blocker is even in the area to pick him up. Could that be Elfein or PK blowing protection calls or McAdoo? There are many things that lead to a sack. 

The reason this team is 1-5 and not 3-2 or even 4-1 is that no part of the Panthers in 2022 has been able to put a complete game together, and the mistakes have all come at the worst time, including the oline. 

Edited October 23, 2022 by AlphabetsEnd

[LinvilleGorge]

8 minutes ago, AlphabetsEnd said:

Except it's not. Go watch the plays, watch the protections, watch the coverages, who is (not) open in the progression, who is even lookin back to the QB to allow a dump off, if the defense is man or zone, and if it's man, how much separation do the receivers have (little based on the film), then look at OLine and Dline, who is getting beat or missing their assignment, who is not getting picked up, is the pocket holding or collapsing, or is the olin moving or failing to move with the rollout, or in the case of several sacks moving into the QBs escape route to scramble. 

I'm confident in my stances on the offense because I've watched more game film than is healthy this season. It's easy to blame the QB, and even easier to blame Mayfield, but...

 ... go watch the game film from last week with PJ/Eason, we see the same stuff. Good pass blocking at times, then blowing protections. Recall, why was PJ out at the end? A free blitzer went untouched and murdered him. Not a single blocker is even in the area to pick him up. Could that be Elfein or PK blowing protection calls or McAdoo? There are many things that lead to a sack. 

The reason this team is 1-5 and not 3-2 or even 4-1 is that no part of the Panthers in 2022 has been able to put a complete game together, and the mistakes have all come at the worst time, including the oline. 

That's the thing, I'm not blaming Mayfield. I'm blaming the QB position. Our problem is that all of our QBs suck and so does our offensive scheme. The results of that combination are entirely predictable.

[AlphabetsEnd]

1 minute ago, LinvilleGorge said:

That's the thing, I'm not blaming Mayfield. I'm blaming the QB position. Our problem is that all of our QBs suck and so does our offensive scheme. The results of that combination are entirely predictable.

As an outspoken critic of McAdoo and his scheme, I would concede that the QB position in this offense isn't helping, but it's the offense, and coaching failing skill position players. But I don't think the particular QBs are the issues, and having any other QB would help much, except maybe Lamar Jackson or a Justin Fields type, who could just take the ball and run until he inevitably got hurt.  Mayfield is a good scrambler, going back to college, PJ is a fast little dude, if they'd let him move, Darnold also is a good athlete (not that we've seen him play yet). 

The line is still blowing protections on key downs, which is what this thread was about, and it's hiding in the analytics.