Tanking does not guarantee a good QB

[mrcompletely11]

11 minutes ago, NJPanthers12 said:

Disagree with this fully.

real fans will never leave and are smart enough to realize what needs to happen. Fair-weather fans will be the first ones back when this team starts winning again. The only thing that will cause irreparable damages is staying status quo and playing musical chairs with god awful quarterbacks. The true fans will lose their passion and walk away. We were seeing that with Matt Rhule.

believe me. Getting destroyed every game the rest of this season will not kill this franchise. My fellow fans from the beginning have been through a ton with this franchise and are still here.

If we can make it through Rae Carruth, the Fred Lane tragedy, The Kerry Collins drama, the Sean Gilbert trade, George Seifert, losing 15 games in a row, Marty Hurney 1.0, Steve Smith punching Ken Lucas, the John Fox lame duck year, Jerry Richardson punting a season for the good of the shield, Andrew Luck spurning the Panthers and going back to college, Gettleman cutting Steve Smith, Getttleman rescinding the franchise tag from Josh Norman, Jerry Richardson bringing back the idiot Marty Hurney, Greg Hardy, Jerry Richardson being a creep trying to shave employees legs, the absurd treatment of Cam Newton and cutting him, Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfiled, and the entire Matt Rhule era then we will al survive tanking the rest of this season.

Real fans?   That’s cute

[poundaway]

8 minutes ago, santiagomn8 said:

We trade away CMC for the Bills 1st. We Trade Moore to the ravens for a 2nd and their back up quarterback Huntley (Jackson Lite). We draft BPA in the draft hopefully pass Rusher and OLine help with Bills Pick. Hire Greg Roman in the off-season and play great defense and a Ravens-Lite Offense to get us back competitive. And start building a good franchise. Who says No?

The biggest weakness is QB, don't see Huntley fixing our issues.

Welcome to the huddle.

Edited October 14, 2022 by poundaway

[ForJimmy]

13 minutes ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

Tremble shi and Marshall are jags. Take the rose collared glasses off. Most teams would have those guys as backups. 

They are young players that need developing. I’m not saying they are great, but can possibly grow into some roles with a new coach and young QB. The best thing we have is a good OL plus a decent defense. That helps a young QB grow more than anything. 

[WUnderhill]

7 minutes ago, santiagomn8 said:

We trade away CMC for the Bills 1st. We Trade Moore to the ravens for a 2nd and their back up quarterback Huntley (Jackson Lite). We draft BPA in the draft hopefully pass Rusher and OLine help with Bills Pick. Hire Greg Roman in the off-season and play great defense and a Ravens-Lite Offense to get us back competitive. And start building a good franchise. Who says No?

I’d take a 1st for Cmc in a heartbeat but doubt we can get that much. I’d rather not trade Moore since I think he has more prime years left in the tank than CMC so I don’t see the value there. If they do manage to trade Cmc, then we are almost certainly going to be picking #1 or #2 and I think you have to use that opportunity on QB provided our scouts and GM think there is one worthy of that pick.

[GOAT]

the panthers absolutely must draft a QB, and they absolutely must surround that kid with the best staff and supporting cast as possible.

taking is not real either.

[Panthers Fan 69]

3 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

I’d take a 1st for Cmc in a heartbeat but doubt we can get that much. I’d rather not trade Moore since I think he has more prime years left in the tank than CMC so I don’t see the value there. If they do manage to trade Cmc, then we are almost certainly going to be picking #1 or #2 and I think you have to use that opportunity on QB provided our scouts and GM think there is one worthy of that pick.

1st and a 3rd for CMC

1st and 5th for Dj Moore

2 1st for Burns

 

Those three deals you take all day  

 

[WUnderhill]

3 minutes ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

1st and a 3rd for CMC

1st and 5th for Dj Moore

2 1st for Burns

 

Those three deals you take all day  

 

Yeah because they won’t happen Sorry, but nobody is offering anywhere near that for any of those players.

[mrcompletely11]

8 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Yeah because they won’t happen Sorry, but nobody is offering anywhere near that for any of those players.

Maybe burns but I doubt it.    Philly has 2 they could give and it would put them over the top

[SCO96]

23 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Yeah nobody is saying a QB wins without a team around him, good coaching, etc. The stat about #1 QBs having 3x more SBs is not misleading, it is exactly what it is. The only reason you think it is misleading is if you have a narrative that it challenges, in which case you’ll find ways to say it’s misleading and they don’t count because trades or some other bullshit. Of course you don’t consider the value of what the teams got in the trades either.

You know if Stafford stayed in Detroit he would not have a SB ring . He went to a team that has arguably the best young offensive mind in the game at HC, a Hall of Fame DT, an All-pro CB, a solid cast around him that got better when they signed OBJ.  The Rams were in the SB just 3 seasons prior to 2021.  I like Stafford, but he was held back for years by his Detroit. The Rams made s wise move to get him. I

23 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

I see you also changed the data set for no real reason. I went back 20 years and there wasn’t a #1 QB that won the SB for years from my starting point, I didn’t cherry pick some data set that best fit my narrative. Why not start in 2006 when the rule changes really started to favor QBs? Why not make it an even 25 years to include Elway? Not that it matters, you’d make an excuse to explain it away, like you even want to try to get Brad Johnson in there as “undrafted today”, lol like me including him as pick 200 something just isn’t good enough.

You need to look at the post that preceded mine. The post I originally responded to made reference to the LAST 20 SB winning QB's. I didn't cherry pick anything. 2021-20=2001. I just rounded down one year so I could use the 21st Century as a starting point and include in Trent Dilfer, who was a QB drafted high in the first round one.

Elway was a great QB. He deserved to be a #1 overall pick. JaMarcus Russel was also a #1 overall pick. He sucked. As great as Elway was he was 0-3 in SB's. Each loss was worse than they one that preceded it because his team wasn't as good. He won 2 titles on the backend, but he was past his prime by that time. His teams were stacked and he had Terrell Davis to help him carry that load in addition to Shannon Sharpe, Rod Smith, Ed MaCaffrey, etc 

You're taking the Brad Johnson thing too personal. I remember him coming out in the 9th round. We only have 7 rounds now so I was thinking he'd likely be a UDFA now. I didn't realize you had him on your original post. My bad.

36 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

So sick of talking with your crowd. You are constantly arguing in bad faith, from the basis of one or the other, either or, there’s never the basic assumption that we’re all Panthers fans and want a good TEAM with good coaches etc. PLUS a franchise QB. Constantly arguing on the basis of EXCEPTIONS like Tom Brady. Of course there are exceptions, of course you can strike gold outside of the first round, but that is not a good STRATEGY.

The  "tank crowd" is misunderstanding our position. If a guy is worthy of a top selection go get him. If not don't' reach. No problem taking a Cam Newton, Troy Aikman, John Elway, Andrew Luck, Trevor Lawrence in the first round. We'd all trade up for them if we had to . We wouldn't do it for David Carr, Baker Mayfield, or Jamarcus Russell.  Some guys are saying that we should tank for CJ Stroud even though Ohio State hasn't produced a QB that has made 1 Pro Bowl appearance in 65 years. What has Justin Fields shown so far to suggest that we should have taken him in the first round last year?

1 hour ago, WUnderhill said:

Since we tanked (Yes, JR and John Fox 100% tanked that season) and drafted Cam Newton #1 (don’t see you complaining about that one) we’ve also drafted Will Grier and Matt Corral in the 3rd rd, brought in PJ Walker (undrafted, remember you CAN get lucky and win with undrafted QBs so he should be good enough right?), Teddy Bridgewater, Sam Darnold, Baker Mayfield, attempted to trade for Matthew Stafford and Deshaun Watson, DIDN’T trade up for Justin Herbert even though our GM really wanted him, etc. Where are we today? Maybe it’s time to be honest with where we’re at as a franchise. You never say what you think is going to be gained by winning 4-5 games as opposed to 1-3. Or do you think PJ Walker is about to take the team on a run through the toughest part of the schedule right after we fire our HC?

You and I clearly disagree on some things. But I don't think its' a stretch to say that if you were a GM, you probably would have tried to move up to get Herbert (I would have too) and would not have made any of the bad moves Rhule made at QB. Still, as bad as our offense is, I don't think any of our QB's the past 3 years can be fairly judged from their time under Rhule.

[AU-panther]

14 hours ago, Panthers Fan 69 said:

Most QBs taken high in the last 10 years have been busts. Just play for the wins. 

People love to point that out but it’s an incomplete statement.

You are correct that a top-10 QB doesn’t guarantee they will be good but the chance of an early QB being better is higher than the later ones.

Maybe the top-10 ones only work out 20% but if they later ones only work out 5% that is 4 times more likely. 

[santiagomn8]

1 hour ago, poundaway said:

The biggest weakness is QB, don't see Huntley fixing our issues.

Welcome to the huddle.

Thank You!

i agree quarterback is the biggest need but we can’t reach for a quarterback. In my opinion none of these quarterbacks are worth possibly the 1st three picks in the draft but then again who am I. If they believe one of the quarterbacks is their guy then by all means choose one. Assuming I’m right we need to build the talent on the team.

[OldNorthPowell]

Some hope is better than none as a fan

[jb2288]

I agree to an extent here. Between Levis, Young, and Stoud history tells us one will be an all star, one will be a JAG, one will be a massive bust and everyone will have an opinion on which each will be. I think we end up with a top 4 pick regardless so just go play and draft whichever is there when you pick and hope the odds are with us

[jb2288]

3 hours ago, santiagomn8 said:

We trade away CMC for the Bills 1st. We Trade Moore to the ravens for a 2nd and their back up quarterback Huntley (Jackson Lite). We draft BPA in the draft hopefully pass Rusher and OLine help with Bills Pick. Hire Greg Roman in the off-season and play great defense and a Ravens-Lite Offense to get us back competitive. And start building a good franchise. Who says No?

I think most everyone would say no. HUNTLEY????