Is the 2022 roster Rhule built better than the 2019 roster that Rhule inherited?

[Mr. Scot]

7 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Why are you showing 2019? There were so many FAs and let’s be honest, Hurney and Ron went right up to the cap ceiling

He wanted to frame it as pre-Rhule versus post-Rhule, but it's a fair point that the roster we had when he first got here in 2020 might be the better comparison option.

Edited October 13, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[CRA]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

He wanted to frame it as pre-Rhule versus post-Rhule, but it's a fair point that the 2020 roster might be the better comparison option.

gets weird, Rhule didn't inherit the 2020 roster.   He helped mold that roster that existed in 2020. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, CRA said:

gets weird, Rhule didn't inherit the 2020 roster.   He helped mold that roster that existed in 2020.

Specifically, the start of 2020.

Take Luke Kuechly. You can't say Rhule ever had Luke Kuechly because he really didn't. Luke might have technically been on the roster at the end of 2019 but he decided to retire before it got to the 2020 period.

On the flipside, it's valid to use Newton as a point of comparison because Rhule had the option to keep Newton but he chose not to.

Where it becomes semantically complicated is when you look at guys who, for example, were set to hit free agency with the 2020 offseason. Do you count them because they were options or do you say they really weren't because they were not under contract?

[CRA]

11 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Specifically, the start of 2020.

Take Luke Kuechly. You can't say Rhule ever had Luke Kuechly because he really didn't. Luke might have technically been on the roster at the end of 2019 but he decided to retire before it got to the 2020 period.

On the flipside, it's valid to use Newton as a point of comparison because Rhule had the option to keep Newton but he chose not to.

Where it becomes semantically complicated is when you look at guys who, for example, were set to hit free agency with the 2020 offseason. Do you count them because they were options or do you say they really weren't because they were not under contract?

well, who is the next HC inheriting.   If you take the free agents off the table his entire QB room is Matt Corral.  An injured rookie who has never played a snap .  

Rhule inherited a better QB situation than that.  He inherited a great leader.  Who while not in his prime, went on to win more games than Rhule after Rhule cut him. 

I mean, so if QB is the most important spot that exists.  Rhule inherited a MUCH better situation than the next guy. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, CRA said:

well, who is the next HC inheriting.   If you take the free agents off the table his entire QB room is Matt Corral.  An injured rookie who has never played a snap .  

Rhule inherited a better QB situation than that.  He inherited a great leader.  Who while not in his prime, went on to win more games than Rhule after Rhule cut him. 

I mean, so if QB is the most important spot that exists.  Rhule inherited a MUCH better situation than the next guy. 

I think you have to count Cam against Rhule because he could have had him but chose not to.

As to who the next guy is inheriting, well we can't really know that yet because the season isn't ending today. The final roster for the 2022 season is a long way from being set and there's likely to be a lot of churn between now and then.

[CRA]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I think you have to count Cam against Rhule because he could have had him but chose not to.

As to who the next guy is inheriting, well we can't really know that yet because the season isn't ending today. The final roster for the 2022 season is a long way from being set and there's likely to be a lot of churn between now and then.

You have to count Cam IMO against Rhule.  He wasn't a free agent.  He had a year left on his deal.  He opted to cut him, Cam went on to win more games than his QB with what was the worst roster in the NFL that season in NE, and then Rhule brought Cam back to save his job. 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

You have to count Cam IMO against Rhule.  He wasn't a free agent.  He had a year left on his deal.  He opted to cut him, Cam went on to win more games than his QB with what was the worst roster in the NFL that season in NE, and then Rhule brought Cam back to save his job. 

What would have happened had he not cut Newton is probably as interesting a question as what would have happened had he successfully acquired Stafford.

Newton wasn't gonna be a long term answer either mind you, but you have to wonder what would have been different.

[mav1234]

5 minutes ago, CRA said:

You have to count Cam IMO against Rhule.  He wasn't a free agent.  He had a year left on his deal.  He opted to cut him, Cam went on to win more games than his QB with what was the worst roster in the NFL that season in NE, and then Rhule brought Cam back to save his job. 

Ehh. I don't agree re: worst roster in the NFL. But beyond that, Cam was not seen by coaches or fans as being a long term answer.

While we don't have a long term answer on the roster now, we also didn't in 2019.

[mav1234]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

Newton wasn't gonna be a long term answer either mind you, but you have to wonder what would have been different.

Very little, imo. Maybe another win or two, but I'm skeptical of that, as well, given the weaknesses on the OL.  Certainly I doubt we would have made the playoffs.

And I suspect we would be exactly where we are now, having gambled on Darnold and Mayfield.

[Mr. Scot]

18 minutes ago, stbugs said:

Lol, sometimes you amaze me with your examples.

Just answer one question for me. Is Iky a far better, higher ceiling LT than BC?

BC played a bunch his rookie year after the first few weeks (not surprising for a 3rd round pick) and Iky was barely “forced” to earn his spot. He played LT for every snap of preseason and was announced as the starter in what, week 1 of the preseason games? Is Iky somehow hindered and not playing well now because of Rhule? Did Rhule have him learn G and C like he did for BC?

Getting mad about Iky’s preseason is honestly laughable as if any coaches have a philosophy that you don’t have to earn your spot. I’d be really interested in those coaches who don’t tell the team they have to earn their spots. Mike Tomlin is considered a good coach and Pickett had Trubisky in front of him. Tomlin made Pickett earn the starting job. Is Tomlin stupid? Everyone knew Iky was starting and if people are saying he’s playing well for a rookie after a few weeks, it makes no sense to say his development was stunted in any way.

Rhule’s gone and he deserved to be but damn why do we have to invent stuff? Does it make people feel better?

Yeah, sure dude. Whatever makes you feel smarter

Christensen's handling makes perfect sense if you say so. I'm sure the quarterback competition wasn't really that bad an idea either. Hell, it brought the locker room together, right?

Edited October 13, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Basbear]

Im with @Sgt Schultz its younger for sure. Better????? Whos coaching each side??? feels like a pick'em......but if that young team answered TD with TDs, they would win....

RR even said he let the team get too old, hard to be upset given the case of vets. 

[Mr. Scot]

30 minutes ago, mav1234 said:

Very little, imo. Maybe another win or two, but I'm skeptical of that, as well, given the weaknesses on the OL.  Certainly I doubt we would have made the playoffs.

And I suspect we would be exactly where we are now, having gambled on Darnold and Mayfield.

That's probably fair.

I think it was our resident shogun who suggested more wins might have just gotten us more Rhule, and hence more suffering, before leading to the same eventual result.

[Basbear]

Plus I will add this, I feel the biggest mistake of the panther/tepper/rhule era. 

Tepper allowed Smarty Marty to stay.

One of Martys BIGGEST issues- he NEVER embraced rebuilding, he always thought *any* year/group had the goods to win. He was WRONG!

So Marty gets in Rhules mind and they do not take the best time in NFL history to rebuild a fossil team.

I blame Tepper for this mainly, he should have fired Herniay at the same time as RR. 

This set the team back a couple years, thanks Tepper..... 

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, Basbear said:

Plus I will add this, I feel the biggest mistake of the panther/tepper/rhule era. 

Tepper allowed Smarty Marty to stay.

One of Martys BIGGEST issues- he NEVER embraced rebuilding, he always thought *any* year/group had the goods to win. He was WRONG!

So Marty gets in Rhules mind and they do not take the best time in NFL history to rebuild a fossil team.

I blame Tepper for this mainly, he should have fired Herniay at the same time as RR. 

This set the team back a couple years, thanks Tepper..... 

I've probably said it a dozen times, but my biggest issue with Tepper is his tendency to trust the wrong people.