It’s time to do this the right way

[WUnderhill]

1 minute ago, Mr. Scot said:

I'd let the new coach make that decision himself.

Too late if we spend the rest of the season feeding the stud and mess around and win a few games putting ourselves at pick 5 or something.

[ECHornet]

20 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Sounds like you guys have extremely realistic opinions of Mccaffrey’s value. I’d take a first while not taking on any salary, but thought I would present an actual realistic scenario. I’d love to hear your Madden trade proposals.

Why would you trade CMC for a 3rd round pick? Even if you were right about him not being in high demand, isn't he worth more than a 3rd rounder to our team? You're not right about that, by the way. The Bills called immediately after we fired Rhule and I'm sure they're not alone.

[WUnderhill]

9 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

Why would you trade CMC for a 3rd round pick? Even if you were right about him not being in high demand, isn't he worth more than a 3rd rounder to our team? You're not right about that, by the way. The Bills called immediately after we fired Rhule and I'm sure they're not alone.

It’s weird you keep talking about this 3rd round pick as if that is the first thing I said. What I actually said was a 2nd round pick. The third round pick was an “at least”, which means “if the market is trash and that is the best we can get, I wouldn’t be thrilled, but definitely no less.” So do you think we can get a 1st round pick or something? Because what I said was my realistic hope was that we could get a second if we take on some salary. As I’m sure you know and have thought deeply about, most teams have kind of already spent their salary cap for this season so if we want trade partners we might have to consider that.

Edit to add: I’m sure there are teams calling, but you have no idea what they’re offering. I’m sure there are plenty of teams that would be so willing to scratch our backs and take Mccaffrey off our hands for a 6th rounder

Edited October 11, 2022 by WUnderhill

[bigdog10]

26 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you really want to lure a great head coach, trading away some of our best assets isn't the way to do it.

An attractive head coach doesn’t view an oft injured running back with an albatross of a contract as a “best asset”. A nice piece, sure, but most definitely something that will hinder that new coaches ability to facilitate a roster as they see fit due to the financial constraints. 

[OldhamA]

50 minutes ago, WUnderhill said:

Sounds like you guys have extremely realistic opinions of Mccaffrey’s value. I’d take a first while not taking on any salary, but thought I would present an actual realistic scenario. I’d love to hear your Madden trade proposals.

Why even trade him at that point?

You're essentially giving away your best player for free. Why? What's the thought process behind that?

[Navy_football]

I will never agree that "putting the team in a position to lose" is the right approach. 

Be creative with CMC. More slot play.

More PT from Foreman.

More man coverage in the secondary. 

Stop dropping Burns into coverage so much. 

Take more deep shots in the passing game, and stop being so predictable on offense.

Learn how to win. You don't need a superstar QB if you have a good team and coaches. 

[Mr. Scot]

18 minutes ago, bigdog10 said:

An attractive head coach doesn’t view an oft injured running back with an albatross of a contract as a “best asset”. A nice piece, sure, but most definitely something that will hinder that new coaches ability to facilitate a roster as they see fit due to the financial constraints. 

What a lot of head coaching candidates don't like is having decisions made for them.

Again, I'd let him make that choice.

[WUnderhill]

3 minutes ago, Navy_football said:

I will never agree that "putting the team in a position to lose" is the right approach. 

Be creative with CMC. More slot play.

More PT from Foreman.

More man coverage in the secondary. 

Stop dropping Burns into coverage so much. 

Take more deep shots in the passing game, and stop being so predictable on offense.

Learn how to win. You don't need a superstar QB if you have a good team and coaches. 

Going back to 2002, so 20 yrs. (btw I just chose 20 years randomly as a round number and didn’t want to go back too far to before the rule changes geared towards QBs), I count 2-4 Super Bowls won by non-franchise QBs (depending how you want to call it), that’s 2002-3 Bucs and 2017-18 Eagles for sure, and then depending on how you want to look at it Joe Flacco in 2012-13 and Peyton Manning in 2015-16. The superstar QBs win all the others: the Mannings, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Brees, Mahomes. It’s pretty bad odds on winning without the superstar QB. 

[bigdog10]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

What a lot of head coaching candidates don't like is having decisions made for them.

Again, I'd let him make that choice.

Are we hiring a head coach with personnel control or are we hiring someone to coach the team while Fitterer and Morgan build the roster?

If it’s the later, then it doesn’t really matter if the coach has a problem with those decisions. 
 

If it’s the former, then I agree; but we have a whole new set of issues at hand to deal with (mainly, what is Fitterer and Morgan’s role in this transition period). 

[poundaway]

20 minutes ago, jackson113 said:

Until we're out of playoff contention we try to win. Period. Y'all get stuck on this draft stuff too much. These players need to learn to win and get over the Hump. Period. 

Wilks isn't going to evacuate players for another coach. You're in fantasy land buddy.

Winning with Wilks, McAdoo, and PJ against the Rams, Bucs, Bengals and Ravens?  Who's in fantasyland?

[Wundrbread33]

Fitterer can go straight to hell if he trades CMC for a late 2nd or 3rd round pick, while eating the contract.

 

And fug tanking. It doesn’t work. Players won’t lay down. And getting the first QB in the draft doesn’t mean you end up with the best QB in the draft. You tend to give the #1 pick more commitment and time, but it’s not even clear that there is a dude head and shoulders better as a prospect than Corral in this draft. 
 

 

[Maryland Cat]

I agree with a lot of this but I would definitely put a top 3 QB out there on day one and see what he’s got.  

[Actionman0z]

13 hours ago, WUnderhill said:

The cupboards aren’t bare…yet.

We aren’t 5 years away from competing…yet.

This team is on a razors edge. Do it the right way and we can be competing in 2-3 years. Do it the wrong way and we’re going to be having this same conversation in 3 years.

1. Trade Mccaffrey. Offer to pay the rest of his salary this year and try to get a late 2nd rounder from a contender. At the very least a 3rd rounder.

2. Make sure Wilks knows we need to evaluate our WHOLE roster in game time situations. We need to give our next HC as much film to go off as possible for all of our players. It sucks Wilks has been dealt this shitty hand, but find some other way to evaluate him as a HC besides his W/L record this year.

3. Be VERY cautious with Baker and Darnold's injuries (and for that matter any other injuries). PJ can start as long as possible.

4. Hopefully with this approach and just being a bad team in the first place, we are bad enough to get the #1 draft pick, while also trying to win with the players we have on the field. I don't agree with asking coaches and players to try to lose, but there are ways to essentially tank without doing that and while also getting some productive things done this year in looking towards the future.

5. Have a coach specifically dedicated to Matt Corral and his development, rehab, etc. if you don't already. Time to reach into those pockets Tepper. Corral looked lost in the little we got to see of him, we need to know if he can do this pretty quickly next season. He should be getting fed from a fire hose mentally all season, and when he's ready physically you should have a juco team or something on payroll just to get him practice reps in a pro style offense.

6. Time to reach into those pockets even more, Tepper. Our scouting department should be the highest paid in the NFL this year. They need to be burning the candle at both ends during this crucial time, and we need to make sure we have the absolute best scouts we can possibly have right now, especially for QBs. Bring in special consultants if you have to. Heck, have Macadoo start looking at the QBs in next years draft if you value his opinion. It’s more important than what he is doing on Sundays.

7. Hire the right HC. It can be a defensive guy, but he sure as hell better be able to wow you with the caliber of OC and QB coach he is bringing with him, and you better be damn sure that he’ll keep that caliber of offensive mind on staff if those ones leave for HC gigs.

8. If we get the #1 overall and we’ve done our homework, use the opportunity to get our QB of the future on a team friendly contract for the next 5 years. This will be our best time to re-sign other young and productive players like Burns, Chinn, etc. This will be our best opportunity to become a consistently competitive team while we have a young stud QB on a rookie deal. Let him and Corral compete. Let Corral start the season next year. DO NOT spend #1 on a QB and put him out there until we have an OL that can consistently protect him AND he is good enough diagnosing blitzes and calling his protections at the LOS.

9. Draft OL until you think we don’t need any more OL, then draft more. Get the best center in next year’s draft to go with our young QBs. We should be able to get that at the top or end of the second round (with the pick we get for Mccaffrey in this hypothetical).

10. Win.

This is trash. 

[Navy_football]

16 hours ago, WUnderhill said:

Going back to 2002, so 20 yrs. (btw I just chose 20 years randomly as a round number and didn’t want to go back too far to before the rule changes geared towards QBs), I count 2-4 Super Bowls won by non-franchise QBs (depending how you want to call it), that’s 2002-3 Bucs and 2017-18 Eagles for sure, and then depending on how you want to look at it Joe Flacco in 2012-13 and Peyton Manning in 2015-16. The superstar QBs win all the others: the Mannings, Big Ben, Brady, Rodgers, Stafford, Brees, Mahomes. It’s pretty bad odds on winning without the superstar QB. 

So to clarify... a team shouldn't tank to draft a rookie superstar QB. That's what we're discussing. 

Out of that group of superstars, only the Mannings, Stafford and Mahomes were top 10 picks. Mahomes was the 10th pick in his draft. Everyone else went to pretty good situations (including Mahomes actually) before winning a superbowl. Stafford had to go to another team (stacked) to finally win his, just as Brees. Eli won his primarily off of defense, and a big play or two when it counted. But he was no superstar QB lighting up the league. I will give you Peyton with the one in Indy. Definitely not the one "that shall not be mentioned" on a different team though. His team won in spite of him. If we're being technical, the QB with the most SB wins was the lowest drafted of the group - 6th rounder out of Michigan. 

QBs are given way too much credit for wins and loses. It takes a team effort to win a super bowl. You could put a good-not-great QB on a really good team, and you'd get Eli Manning level of success.