How Fox could keep his job (even with 4-12)

[robtrox0]

if jerry was smart he would fire fox and hire cowher if hes wants to coach here.. and it would really fire up the fanbase = $$$$$

[err456]

Yeah, contrary to what most people on the board believe (and wish), I think there's a good chance Fox will be back next year. If he can swallow his pride and keep Jake on the bench, I think this team can really thrive with a new QB. We don't need an entirely new coaching staff or system or philosophy. We just need a QB that doesn't throw four picks a game.

...We also need a #2 WR.

If I were JR I would only keep Fox if Jake were to retire. I would not trust him with his boy still on the team. I don't understand the loyality he has for him.

Jake has had his moments but he has hurt this team over the years way to much for Fox to keep hanging on.

[Cyberjag]

No Argument Needed: In reality, there's been no actual confirmation that Fox is on the proverbial hot seat or that Richardson is inclined to fire him for a bad season. So even if things go completely wrong, Richardson might come out after the season and say "I still trust John Fox" and that'd be it. Fox would then be free to make what changes he wants and go into next season safe and secure.

This is the only thing you need to say. All of the Fox hot seat statements have been pure speculation. It convinces people to buy papers, but it doesn't make them any smarter having read it.

If John Fox is still here (no matter the record) then Jerry Richardson needs to sell the team, let the franchise move, and stop leading the fans on.

Here are the teams from the 2008 season with losing records:

Green Bay (New starting QB) - Coach Kept

Detroit - Coach Fired

Seattle - (Injured QB) - Coach Resigned

St. Louis - Coach Fired

Buffalo - Coach Kept only to be fired this year

Cincinnati - Palmer injured - Coach Kept

Cleveland - Coach Fired

Jacksonville - Coach Kept

Oakland - Train wreck and I refuse to compare us to them

Kansas City - Coach Fired

Out of the 10 teams with losing records from 2008, 6 of them have new coaches now.

You have ten teams with losing records, and every single one of them that has fired their coach has a losing record right now. The ones that kept their coach are a combined 21-12. I don't think you're making the point you think you are here.

Richardson is too good of a businessman to give Fox a pass.

Giving Fox a pass may in fact be good business. No one knows better than Jerry what the impact of the CBA expiring will be. He could go out and hire someone and have to buy out Fox's contract, only to pay that person to sit at home WHILE he's paying Fox for the last year of his contract. That's not good business, is it?

See point one--it's all speculation. If Richardson wants to keep Fox, he can, and he won't have to come up with a good reason to do so.

[Zod]

Fox's only hope is that he can convince JR that he will be able to find or already has a great replacement for Jake. Jake right now is an anchor around his neck. Fox sticking with the worst QB in the league week after week has shown extremely poor judgement.

If both Fox and Delhomme are back next season, ticket sales will be the worst in team history. If Fox is back next season without Delhomme, there may be a chance for excitement.

[DaveThePanther2008]

Fox and Hurney are gone. There are no excuses this time.

With the exception of a few bust and a few bad F.A. pickups (Namely CARR) Hurney has put together a pretty solid team. Many of our starters are draft picks. Our depth has taken a hit but alot of our backups are solid.

I believe Fox will be gone. I am not 100% sure on Hurney. There are arguments to get rid of him but in the long run I think he has done a good job.

Go Panthers

[MadHatter]

I do not think the injury excuse holds any water this season. We were GOD AWFUL early in the season...when Kemo was the only injury.

The injuries to Davis and Gross were not the reasons we lost.

[AceMan]

The only way I see Fox coming back is if we win 3 out of our last 5 games and Fox decides to cut Delhomme. Not "back-up QB", CUT Delhomme. If Delhomme stays anywhere on this team with John Fox, the fanbase would rebel.

I just think Fox messed up when he refused to bench Jake at several key moments of the season and turn him into the joke of the NFL

[grateflday]

Conventional wisdom is that a 6-10 record or lower could very well get John Fox his walking papers. Worst case scenario? The team loses its remaining games and goes 4-12. Most would likely expect that result to spell the end for Fox as Panthers head coach.

Probably true, but there are legitimate scenarios where Fox could keep his job, even if the Panthers don't win another game.

Here's how...

Blame the injuries: This is the most likely out. Fox could argue that the injuries to key players prevented him from being able to field a winning team. Considering that he was given a pass for a prior losing season on this basis, it's not exactly farfetched. Yes, other teams have worked through injuries, but it's the exception, not the rule. Fox knows this, and Jerry Richardson does too.

Blame the Quarterback: Fox has tied himself pretty closely to Jake Delhomme in the past, but if it came down to him or Jake, I expect Fox would bail. Is Fox one of the people that kept Jake here? Sure, but he could go to Richardson and say "Look, after last season we really thought he had a few good years left, but it turns out he didn't. We blew it, but we'll fix it and it won't happen again." It's definitely not out of the realm of possibility that Richardson could accept this as a valid explanation.

Ask for a New Staff: This past offseason saw a near complete turnover of the defensive staff while the offensive group remained mostly intact. Although it took a little time, the new defensive staff eventually translated to improvement. Fox could make the argument that a similar turnover on the offensive side (plus a new QB) could lead to similar improvement. "Give me Charlie Weis and a new staff and we'll do the same on offense," he could say. And yeah, there's some logic to it, so it could happen.

Appeal to Prior Record: Overall, Fox still has a decent winning percentage. In his time as Panthers coach, the team has been to a Super Bowl and two NFC Championships. That's not bad for a coaching career. Thus, Fox could cast this season as a "bump in the road" and say that the team will "be back" next season. Richardson could very well be inclined to agree.

Point out the Tough Road Ahead: Starting over with a new coach could very well mean rebuilding from the ground up. Most teams that have to start over like this end up having to endure at least one rough season, sometimes more. Fox could conceivably convince Richardson that it'd be easier to stick with him and let him tweak things than it would to start all over. Richardson might look at the situation and decide it's true.

Appeal to the "Last Chance" Scenario: Fox has a single year left on his contract, and it wouldn't be a reach to spin that last year into a last chance. "Look, I've got one more year," he could argue, "so give me one last chance to show what I can do." Given that hiring a new head coach means essentially starting over, and throwing in that Fox may have guaranteed money in his contract (unknown) Richardson could decide it's easier to just stay the course for one final time and then the following year either extend Fox, or start over.

No Argument Needed: In reality, there's been no actual confirmation that Fox is on the proverbial hot seat or that Richardson is inclined to fire him for a bad season. So even if things go completely wrong, Richardson might come out after the season and say "I still trust John Fox" and that'd be it. Fox would then be free to make what changes he wants and go into next season safe and secure.

Any one of these, or a combination of them, could be used as arguments to keep John Fox in place for one more year.

Will it happen? Unknown. You can be certain that Fox would rather not have to go this route.

But given the circumstances, he might.

We'll see.

All the above are the reason Fox needs to GO... time to move on. Let me explain:

1. Blame the injuries - I think he has already gotten his pass on this one the year Jake got hurt. Plus despite the injuries this team still should be better with the talent they still have on the field.

2. Blame the QB - THIS IS one of the main reasons WHY Fox needs to go. His and Hurney failure to get a QB of the future on this roster has existed way to long. He should have learned his lesson the year Jake went out with the elbow injury. Come on - they drafted only 1 QB in the past 7 years.

3. Ask for new staff- Here is another one he has used before, and twice already. If uses again that would be the third time in three years.

4. Appeal to prior record - No way. The inability to have two winning seasons in a row is crap. He has 3 winning seasons out of last 7 (i am included this season in that).

5. Point to tough road ahead - Not a good one, sometimes a team needs a change at the top to move forward. This is one of them. I am and I think many of us are tired of Fox's brand of football. I hope JR is also.

6. Appeal to "last chance" - When somebody shows you who they are beleive them. What we see is what we get with Fox. Just like holding our breath with Jake, I am like that with Fox. He is to inconsistent. Time to move one, he has had his chances here.

7. No arguement needed - To me that would be a kick in the face by the owner. The issues with this team of existed for several seasons now. If anything last year is annomoly and is confusing the picture.

All said, I do agree there is a possibility Fox will be back next season. It would not surprise me if that happens. I hope it doesnt. I am tired of this brand of football.

[Pimpdaddy]

Fox sticking with the worst QB in the league week after week has shown extremely poor judgement.

If both Fox and Delhomme are back next season, ticket sales will be the worst in team history.

Thats kinda what i've been saying, what in the world is your thought process for not replacing Joke....If both are back it will be unbearable....I just can't stomach that kind of stupidity...

[Urrymonster]

If the seats stop filling then I think it's a lock.

If they do not, then he has to weigh up all those things you pointed out.

[Udogg]

This is the only thing you need to say. All of the Fox hot seat statements have been pure speculation. It convinces people to buy papers, but it doesn't make them any smarter having read it.

You have ten teams with losing records, and every single one of them that has fired their coach has a losing record right now. The ones that kept their coach are a combined 21-12. I don't think you're making the point you think you are here.

Giving Fox a pass may in fact be good business. No one knows better than Jerry what the impact of the CBA expiring will be. He could go out and hire someone and have to buy out Fox's contract, only to pay that person to sit at home WHILE he's paying Fox for the last year of his contract. That's not good business, is it?

See point one--it's all speculation. If Richardson wants to keep Fox, he can, and he won't have to come up with a good reason to do so.

:iagree:

[grateflday]

...................Giving Fox a pass may in fact be good business. No one knows better than Jerry what the impact of the CBA expiring will be. He could go out and hire someone and have to buy out Fox's contract, only to pay that person to sit at home WHILE he's paying Fox for the last year of his contract. That's not good business, is it?

See point one--it's all speculation. If Richardson wants to keep Fox, he can, and he won't have to come up with a good reason to do so.

Like Zod said in a couple of post up from here... Keeping Fox can be BAD business. Their were ALOT of empty seats against the Falcons, and that was a division game, with the Panthers still in the hunt. Now going forward the stadium is going to be 1/2 full and maybe worse. If Fox is back next year, no matter what the fans that are not going now wont go next season for awhile. It will take probably 1/2 season before they come back and the is assuming the team is really good. Otherwise it will be a complete season of an empty stadium and that is BAD business. With a new coaching regime, and hopefully QB there will be an anticipation and excitement from day one.

[Mesmer]

I think we'll see Fox next year and if we do, I won't be angry. That said, if he's gone, I'll understand the decision.

Look at it this way. Fox likes his guys. So we kept his guys (Delhomme, Peppers). It didn't exactly work out. We bet on the wrong horse.. whatever.

I still feel like Hurney is a really good GM, and that Fox is a good coach. He's not perfect but nobody is. How much better do we get with another coach? I'm not sure. But what I do know is that Fox can win here.

[PantherKelsey]

I don't want Fox here next year. I think he's really overrated.