Jason La Canfora on the Panthers Future and CMC

[ECHornet]

44 minutes ago, frankw said:

I'm talking bias and you're talking race we're on different wavelengths here. He's oft injured and obviously we are not going to win anything of meaning or major significance with the way we have assembled our offense ie an overpaid RB first and then plug in whichever leftover QB some team is trying to get rid of. We should have planned on drafting a quarterback the minute we decided Cam was done. You and your pals can live your fantasy of the best weapon in football the rest of us want a real QB and a winning football team.

I also want a real QB and a winning team. Those don’t preclude having a top 5 RB. CMC would only make that QB’s job easier. His contract isn’t what is keeping us from having a franchise QB. 

[frankw]

26 minutes ago, ECHornet said:

I also want a real QB and a winning team. Those don’t preclude having a top 5 RB. CMC would only make that QB’s job easier. His contract isn’t what is keeping us from having a franchise QB. 

Well that's what I said a few years ago when I was trying to make sense of the contract at the time. CMC would have been a great piece for a young quarterback to develop with. We should have paired him with our own young QB instead we went with an all defense draft. But now we are having a hard time keeping him on the field and we have limited resources on top of facing a likely rebuild with a new staff. So we are at the expiration date of that plan. No sense berating each other though we didn't make the decisions that led us down this path. It's on Rhule.

[SCO96]

6 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

He had a 1000 1000 season and we won 5 games.  Running backs don't matter.  His production from this season could easily be replaced.   Trade him to Buffalo for a first, eat the money and move on

If RB's don't matter, why do you (and everyone who wants to trade Christian) think anyone in the NFL is going to give us a #1 draft choice for any injury prone running back? 

We're probably going to get a two at best, but more likely a 3rd round choice. Then everyone is making the assumption that once we get those choices, we're guaranteed to pick the right players and begin a quick rebuild. I've seen nothing in the history of the Panthers to suggest we'd properly use those choices. If anything we're going to draft the wrong player, or "trade down for value" and wind up with more selections, but more JAGS who would also "fail to move the needle"

If I were the owner and Christian demanded a trade this season or held out heading into next season I'd consider accommodating him. If he wants to stay I'd keep him for the rest of the year. Once I knew for certain who the coach and GM would be prior to the 2023 draft I'd consider a trade/move only if a well laid out strategy was presented for the next year that would facilitate a quick rebuild.

Personally, I'd be more inclined to replace a couple of our other high dollar players and use FA and the draft to fill some holes and finally get a QB. We really are just a QB and talented OC away from being a playoff team.

Edited October 6, 2022 by SCO96

[SCO96]

8 hours ago, mrcompletely11 said:

Since 2018 when he became the starter for us we have won a grand total of 17 games out of 69.   He doesnt move the needle like you think he does.

 

 

That's not his fault. As you stated QB's are the most important players on the field. We've had some of the worst QB play in the league since our last playoff season in 2017.  Take a look at some of the following RB's, all time greats, who never won (or even played in ) a SB because of lackluster QB play.

Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, OJ Simpson, Adrian Peterson, Eric Dickerson. Even guys like Walter Payton and Jerome Bettis who did win rings at the end of the careers were only able to do so because they were on teams that had good defenses and competent QB play to lighten their load

Getting rid of Christian for more picks doesn't automatically put us in a better position to win based on our current roster and front office. As I said in another post you can have a boat load of picks and still screw up. Take a look at our last two drafts. Or better yet, look back on the Ricky Williams deal. Saints coach Mike Ditka gave the Redskins all of his draft choices to move up in pick Ricky in the first round. This is from Wikepedia:

"The Saints traded their first round, third round, fourth round, fifth round, sixth round, and seventh round picks in the 1999 NFL Draft,^[7][8] and their first-round and third-round picks from the 2000 NFL Draft to the Washington Redskins for the fifth overall pick of the 1999 NFL Draft."

That was really dumb. But, people tend to overlook the fact that the Redskins accomplished absolutely nothing with all the draft capital they got from the deal. They made the playoffs in 1999, and then missed the postseason the next five seasons until they made it back in 2005.

Extra draft choices mean nothing if you pick the wrong dudes.

Edited October 6, 2022 by SCO96

[Jackie Lee]

Oh look it's guys joking around in the locker room again. 

 

[trueblade]

1 hour ago, SCO96 said:

We really are just a QB and talented OC away from being a playoff team.

[trueblade]

56 minutes ago, SCO96 said:

Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, OJ Simpson, Adrian Peterson, Eric Dickerson. Even guys like Walter Payton and Jerome Bettis

Different era of football. 

Last five SB winners: Rams (Running back by committee), Tampa (Running back by committee), KC (Running back by committee), New England (Running back by committee), Philly (Running back by committee).

[SCO96]

37 minutes ago, trueblade said:

I didn't say we were an elite team. I said we could be a playoff team, especially if certain things fell into place. Remember, we once won a division title with a 7-8-1 record.  Hear me out.

I'm looking ahead to 2023. Brady will in all likelihood be gone from Tampa at the end of the season. Tampa's Super Bowl aspirations will be going away with him. Atlanta and New Orleans are not exactly world beaters. Carolina isn't playing in a stacked division like the AFC West. 

1) Imagine if we had a legit QB who could gets us 25 or more TDs and keep his TD/INT ratio at 2:1. n  

 2) Pair him with a good OC.

3) We have our 1st 3 picks in the  2023 draft class. We should be able to get some good choices b/c we know we'll be picking at the top of each round.

 You guys don't think the above scenario could win us 9-10 games and take a weakened NFC South?

I didn't say we were an elite team or good enough to have a deep playoff run.  I just think we can take our weak division once Brady leaves. 

Edited October 6, 2022 by SCO96

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, SCO96 said:

I didn't say we were an elite team. I said we could be a playoff team, especially if certain things fell into place. Remember, we once won a division title with a 7-8-1 record.  Hear me out.

I'm looking ahead to 2023. Brady will in all likelihood be gone from Tampa at the end of the season. Tampa's Super Bowl aspirations will be going away with him. Atlanta and New Orleans are not exactly world beaters. Carolina isn't playing in a stacked division like the AFC West. 

1) Imagine if we had a legit QB who could gets us 25 or more TDs and keep his TD/INT ratio at 2:1. n  pair 2) Pair him with a good OC.

3) We have our 1st 3 picks in the  2023 draft class. We should be able to get some good choices b/c we know we'll be picking at the top of each round.

 You guys don't think the above scenario could win us 9-10 games and take a weakened NFC South?

I didn't say we were an elite team or good enough to have a deep playoff run.  I just think we can take our weak division once Brady leaves. 

1. Are we talking vet or rookie?

3. You sure about that?

[SCO96]

15 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

1. Are we talking vet or rookie?

3. You sure about that?

1. I think the answer depends on what's available in the offseason. I'll admit that I'd be gun shy getting another low 2nd-3rd tier retread (Bridgewater, Darnold, Mayfield). But if a top 12 guy was available in he'd be a significant upgrade for us. I don't know a whole lot about the rookies. Several guys are saying we should tank to get a top 1-3 choice so I'm guessing their better than last year's class.

3. Nope! But, I'd like to think even Carolina would have a hard time blowing a top 5 selection in the first round. We could probably nab a solid center, LB, d-lineman, or Safety in the 2nd/3rd  and come away with possibly 3 starters in a best case scenario.

[mrcompletely11]

1 minute ago, SCO96 said:

1. I think the answer depends on what's available in the offseason. I'll admit that I'd be gun shy getting another low 2nd-3rd tier retread (Bridgewater, Darnold, Mayfield). But if a top 12 guy was available in he'd be a significant upgrade for us. I don't know a whole lot about the rookies. Several guys are saying we should tank to get a top 1-3 choice so I'm guessing their better than last year's class.

3. Nope! But, I'd like to think even Carolina would have a hard time blowing a top 5 selection in the first round. We could probably nab a solid center, LB, d-lineman, or Safety in the 2nd/3rd  and come away with possibly 3 starters in a best case scenario.

1. I think with a new staff even a first round qb is going to sit for a bit

2. We dont have a 3rd round pick

[SCO96]

Just now, mrcompletely11 said:

1. I think with a new staff even a first round qb is going to sit for a bit

2. We dont have a 3rd round pick

Oops. I was thinking we didn't have a 4th. Thanks for the correction.

Then, we need to really nail those first two draft choices in 2023. As bad as we are, we should have picks in inside the top 40. What I don't want us to do is trade back with the 2nd pick to get more choices. I bet everyone on this board could find two starters for the team next year if we had top 5 choices at the top of each round.

[Jackie Lee]

16 minutes ago, mrcompletely11 said:

1. Are we talking vet or rookie?

3. You sure about that?

 

3.We traded our 2023 3rd for Corral. We have picks in rounds 1,2,4 and 5.

 Kinda insane how we're going into next year with 4 draft picks, no cap space and Corral as the only QB on the roster. It's a tough sell for any new staff, unless it's with the understanding they're going to blow it up and go crazy on the rebuild in 2024

 

[mrcompletely11]

3 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

 

3.We traded our 2023 3rd for Corral. We have picks in rounds 1,2,4 and 5.

 Kinda insane how we're going into next year with 4 draft picks, no cap space and Corral as the only QB on the roster. It's a tough sell for any new staff, unless it's with the understanding they're going to blow it up and go crazy on the rebuild in 2024

 

but fitt rhules or something.