Does our history with Cam prove that we do need a STAR QB if we want to win in this league?

[pantherclaw]

21 minutes ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Nearly 5000 yards and 41 passing TDs. He was definitely elite last year.

Stafford has always been a stud. 

It was unfortunate that he was drafted by the lions. 

 

[GoobyPls]

3 hours ago, LinvilleGorge said:

Yeah, the Packers are competitive year in and year out, but having had literally three decades of either Favre or Rodgers and to have come away with only two rings is significantly underperforming. 

That cause they are a bunch of cheapskate. Doesn’t take away from the fact that they are competitive 

[onmyown]

Our history with cam? No. General NFL recent history and current environment? Yes, and it’s not a secret. The panthers aren’t the only team in the nfl.

This is why a tank is important, it after all the sole reason the panthers got cam and you don’t want to get the first overall pick AND actually be trying. If that’s the case we truly are the modern browns.

[CPantherKing]

19 hours ago, jackson113 said:

Aaron Rodgers has what one Ring? Same as Nick Foles ..... Makes you wonder...

Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Phill Simms, Jim McMahon, Jim Plunkett, and Joe Theismann all have a ring since the 80s, and they are not elite QBs.

Bill Walsh would argue that you don't need an elite QB and would not call Montana an elite QB. Gibbs won the SB with 3 non-elite QBs. Parcells won the SB with 2 non-elite QBs.

1 of 4 SBs are won by non-elite QBs. Elite QBs win 1 of 4 SBs. Dynastic QBs win 2 of 4 SBs.

You could run with Flacco and Foles as your teams 2 QBs in 2022 and win the SB with a championship level coach.

[CPantherKing]

19 hours ago, pantherj said:

Old school smash mouth with an game manager QB is not going to win Super Bowls. If you're cool with not winning SBs, then really all we need is Baker and a better defense. Then we can get our 8 wins and once in a blue moon make the playoffs.

Without a top tier QB you are relying on a middle or lower tier QB having a season where he just plays well beyond his talent level. Like Bake would have to suddenly start playing as well as prime Tom Brady for us to have a shot at the SB. It's not impossible, but you'd be considered an idiot if you expected that to happen.

The huddle loves defense and running the ball a lot. That is because Panthers fans grew up with Fox ball, and later RR. This is a LBer loving fan base. Wow look at him tackle! He's a humble lunch pale guy who works hard! The reality is that we need a superstar QB and some arrogant track star WRs to put the ball down the field and in the endzone. Tall, fast, explosive WRs and a tall QB who can drop dimes.

Baker stinks at producing a GWD. 32 L, 7 GWD, 18% W.

Darnold: 32 L, 4 GWD, 11% W

Foles: 27 L, 13 GWD, 33% W

Flacco: 80 L, 25 GWD, 24% W

Jimmy G: 15 L, 10 GWD, 40% W

Given 10 opportunities to come from behind and win a game in the 4th quarter, Jimmy G wins 4 times, Foles wins 3 times, Flacco wins 2 times, Mayfield wins 1 time, and Darnold wins 1 time. This was consistent with their college opportunities and will remain consistent in the NFL. This is when the defense fails to maintain the lead and the running game fails to control the game.

The preferred QB room would be 1) Jimmy G, 2) Foles, 3) Flacco to cover for a defense and running game when they fail to control and close out a game.

Baker, Darnold, Walker is by far a lesser QB room and little to no shot at winning a game if the D and running game cannot carry the team.

None of these QBs are elite, but you can win in the playoffs and win a SB with the Jimmy G, Foles, Flacco QB room.

 

 

[frankw]

Predominantly you obviously need a star quarterback if you want not just consistent playoffs but Super Bowl appearances. People referencing two or three quarterbacks out of the last 10-15 years are high on hopium and the folks referencing QB's from the 90's 80's and even further need to walk on back to 2022 with the rest of us. We have to draft our guy and stop trading for leftovers.

[Khyber53]

Super Bowl teams are led more than built. Coaching, QB, MLB. 

We don't really have those at the moment.

It also helps to have a really good medical/training staff on hand as injuries can derail even the most star studded teams. The best teams are those who somehow endure the season.

[stirs]

1 hour ago, CPantherKing said:

Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Phill Simms, Jim McMahon, Jim Plunkett, and Joe Theismann all have a ring since the 80s, and they are not elite QBs.

Bill Walsh would argue that you don't need an elite QB and would not call Montana an elite QB. Gibbs won the SB with 3 non-elite QBs. Parcells won the SB with 2 non-elite QBs.

1 of 4 SBs are won by non-elite QBs. Elite QBs win 1 of 4 SBs. Dynastic QBs win 2 of 4 SBs.

You could run with Flacco and Foles as your teams 2 QBs in 2022 and win the SB with a championship level coach.

Trent Dilfer

[CPantherKing]

51 minutes ago, frankw said:

Predominantly you obviously need a star quarterback if you want not just consistent playoffs but Super Bowl appearances. People referencing two or three quarterbacks out of the last 10-15 years are high on hopium and the folks referencing QB's from the 90's 80's and even further need to walk on back to 2022 with the rest of us. We have to draft our guy and stop trading for leftovers.

If you're name isn't Manning, Brady, or Roethlisberger over the past 15 years, you are only walking away with 1 ring. If you are hoping to get this type of QB, you are the one on hopium. (13 of the last 21 SB Champions).

Stafford, Mahomes, Foles, Wilson, Flacco, Rodgers, Brees, Johnson, Dilfer, and Warner are what you are left with playing in a SB during the 21st century. It still holds true. 5 non-elite and 5 elite. You don't need an elite QB to win a SB.

Panthers, 49ers, Ravens, Bucs, and Rams have been to the the SB multiple times this century and they didn't need an elite QB behind center every time to make that happen. Packers and Saints had elite QBs this century and they didn't see the SB as many times as teams with non-elite QBs. 

The Lions had an elite QB and never saw the SB. Chargers had an elite QB and never saw the SB. Carson Palmer was an elite QB for the Bengals and Cards without any SB appearance. Cards SB was with Warner (a non-elite QB).

So, no. There is no definitive advantage to having an elite QB unless you win the QB lottery and get a Manning, Roethlisberger or Brady.

Elite QBs do not dominate the NFL and never will.

[rippadonn]

5 hours ago, CPantherKing said:

Nick Foles, Joe Flacco, Brad Johnson, Kurt Warner, Mark Rypien, Jeff Hostetler, Doug Williams, Phill Simms, Jim McMahon, Jim Plunkett, and Joe Theismann all have a ring since the 80s, and they are not elite QBs.

Bill Walsh would argue that you don't need an elite QB and would not call Montana an elite QB. Gibbs won the SB with 3 non-elite QBs. Parcells won the SB with 2 non-elite QBs.

1 of 4 SBs are won by non-elite QBs. Elite QBs win 1 of 4 SBs. Dynastic QBs win 2 of 4 SBs.

You could run with Flacco and Foles as your teams 2 QBs in 2022 and win the SB with a championship level coach.

One for star head coach. I agree.

[Gipetto]

You win in the trenches 

[YourLastThought]

I personally believe you need a star QB to really make it happen. But not just a star, a leader and general as well. Cam started out getting down on himself during games and pouty at times but as he grew and matured you could see the leader and strong man he became. I feel like that's when things really took shape. Give me another freak of nature linebacker looking QB with a cannon for an arm and a fearless attitude to get every yard he can like Cam again and I am willing to bet we begin to be very competitive again. I'd take another Cam any day and evey day of the week.

[CPantherKing]

3 hours ago, Gipetto said:

You win in the trenches 

My philosophy:

You win control of the game in the trenches. Pick up what the defense gives you around OL in the flats or LoS.

You win momentum with big play returners and playmaking WRs

You win close games and playoff games in the last 4 minutes with a highly refined and intelligent QB with a a strong hero instinct in pressure situations and a patient approach to setting up a defense.

You win championships with 4 champion level leaders on defense who can study film with the best of the league, consistently create turnovers, communicate well pre snap, and has a disruption% of 60% or greater.

My KPIs to know how good a team is are control ratio, OffPlymaking%, GWD conversion, and disruption rate. (custom metrics)