Can we officially declare TMJ a bust?

[NorthTryon]

12 hours ago, 4Corners said:

Smith looks like a really exciting prospect and a guy we need to develop and involve more.  None of this can be said about TMJ. Did he get a jersey on Sunday? 

 

12 hours ago, Jon Snow said:

If he was on the field I missed it.  

What's crazy is they were showing him on the social media short vids like he was on the same level as DJ, Robbie, and CMAC. They showed him warming up with headphones making smooth catches from Baker in the endzone. Then I think I caught him in the frame once during game giving a five to Robbie on his touchdown. 

I was thinking we always get the defective toy. Chase and Jefferson out there beating double coverage and our guy the most formidable one on paper can't get on the field. 

[Icege]

1 minute ago, CRA said:

I was fine letting Baker compete in Spartanburg.  He did that.   Rhule carried it pointlessly long.  That's Matt Rhule. 

and when you carry a competition too long, one that clearly isn't actually a competition at some point.....everyone sees that too.   

The options weren't give him the job the day he signed the contract or run it all the way until the 4th preseason game. 

I don't necessarily agree. Training camp is nice and all, but that doesn't give them an opportunity to see how they prepare for and compete against other NFL opponents'. One game isn't enough of a sample size for that either, unless there is a huge discrepancy between the two (which, unfortunately, Baker didn't create enough of). Two games + the joint practices though gives plenty of data to make an educated decision and let their teammates experience it.

Could they have made the announcement before week 3? Sure. Is a week going to be the difference between a solid performance and a shitty one? Seeing as how even elite QBs struggled this week and the NFL has shown a tendency for the first few weeks of games to be sloppy after the practice changes instituted by the CBA, I personally don't think so.

[Proudiddy]

24 minutes ago, CRA said:

it's little things.  Like BC last year, Rhule painfully put him on the field when forced and argued against things with silly nonsense.  BC comes back this offseason with Rhule not really seeing him and suddenly Rhule now says he is one of our best guys that has to be on the field.  There was no real time for that narrative to change so quick.  It was obvious BC should of gotten more work last year and be even further along today than he is if he had.  And he looks like a promosing OL asset. 

Matt Rhule makes everything hard.  Giving Baker the job was easy.  He made it hard.  

100% agreed on all counts.

I had the same thought about BC after the reviews and grades came out after week 1.  Like, we all knew he should've been playing early last season, yet he didn't.  Not to say he would've been THIS good last season, as a rookie, but he damn sure looked close when he got the chances.  And it made me think of Elf and Boze now...  And how Kenny Robinson could go from PS/fringe roster guy to coming in at the end of last season and outplaying every safety not named Chinn.  Or how Burris was the penciled in starter for the last two years, and all of a sudden goes from that to being cut and out on the PS behind the guys that were backing him up for two years, but Rhule swore by him...  And that's why it makes any and everything so hard to evaluate under Rhule, like you said.  I think so much of his decisions are driven by ego and that "smartest guy in the room" garbage, and it's compounded now by job insecurity, so I don't think you ever get pure, untainted motives with him.  It's so obvious in so many of these cases the best guys aren't  playing, and if he isn't playing the best guys then how can we even fairly evaluate the guys that are out there or when they do get out there, as everything seems to be tainted with some sort of dysfunctional agenda?

[CRA]

22 minutes ago, Icege said:

 Two games + the joint practices though gives plenty of data to make an educated decision and let their teammates experience it.

Could they have made the announcement before week 3? Sure. Is a week going to be the difference between a solid performance and a shitty one? Seeing as how even elite QBs struggled this week and the NFL has shown a tendency for the first few weeks of games to be sloppy after the practice changes instituted by the CBA, I personally don't think so.

yeah, but Baker and Sam aren't unknowns.  There is a ton data to make an educated decision on that doesn't take up until the 4th preseason game to figure out.   That's another Rhule issue that consistently shows.   He struggles figuring out pretty obvious things.  Specifically, at QB but at a ton of spots.

and the elite QBs are textbook example of why reps and practice does matter going into a season.  Because even the elites that are largely protected don't look good going into a season without work.   A middle of the pack starter in a new system with all new players is going to need every rep he can get.   

 

[Icege]

8 minutes ago, CRA said:

yeah, but Baker and Sam aren't unknowns.  There is a ton data to make an educated decision on that doesn't take up until the 4th preseason game to figure out.   That's another Rhule issue that consistently shows.   He struggles figuring out pretty obvious things.  Specifically, at QB but at a ton of spots.

and the elite QBs are textbook example of why reps and practice does matter going into a season.  Because even the elites that are largely protected don't look good going into a season without work.   A middle of the pack starter in a new system with all new players is going to need every rep he can get.   

 

I'm with you on Baker clearly being better than Sam, no argument there.

However, in a team environment, he had to compete for the job. That's the part that I believe most fans, especially those without leadership experience (or aren't competent leaders themselves), don't understand. To them, it's obvious. To the guys that share battles together, they need to see that this is going to be a clear upgrade and not a downgrade like it had been when they brought Sam on initially.

EDIT: Wanted to point out that the leadership comment wasn't targeting you. Was just a general observation.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Icege

[CRA]

13 minutes ago, Icege said:

I'm with you on Baker clearly being better than Sam, no argument there.

However, in a team environment, he had to compete for the job. That's the part that I believe most fans, especially those without leadership experience (or aren't competent leaders themselves), don't understand. To them, it's obvious. To the guys that share battles together, they need to see that this is going to be a clear upgrade and not a downgrade like it had been when they brought Sam on initially.

EDIT: Wanted to point out that the leadership comment wasn't targeting you. Was just a general observation.

there were other competitions that were decided before the QB one.  I'm fine with a technical one to open up camp.   It's the length.  When a competition becomes a fake one and then you rob someone of reps. 

 

[PandaMan]

Haven’t read the rest of this thread but, can we officially label him a bust? No.

 

Is it headed towards that direction?  Yes.  
 

He’s been very disappointing so far

[Castavar]

I feel like we're saying this about a lot of our players we've drafted the past 3 years. Not a good look lol

[Icege]

37 minutes ago, CRA said:

there were other competitions that were decided before the QB one.  I'm fine with a technical one to open up camp.   It's the length.  When a competition becomes a fake one and then you rob someone of reps. 

 

Again though, we are looking at... what? An extra week of reps if announced before week 3? How many reps is the threshold?

Mondays are film days. Tuesdays are generally off days. Wednesdays and Thursdays are when the meat of those reps are gotten, and Fridays are often light with early outs. Saturdays are walk thrus. At best, we are looking at an extra two to four days worth of reps?

[frankw]

Right now? No. But he must get on the field and contribute something this season.

[SuperBowlBound]

Considering the Panthers traded down multiple times in the 2nd round, giving Cleveland JOK & then passing on the best center in the draft in Creed Humphrey - yes, TMJ is a MASSIVE bust. The Twitter people that claim to be football experts but only look at Excel spreadsheets loved the pick. Just because the Twitter people love a pick doesn't mean he's any good. TMJ a massive bust so far. Am I still salty about how badly the Panthers whiffed on their OL in 2021? Damn right - because that problem compounded into this year. 

[TheCasillas]

Sounds like TMJ is going to get some run this game.

[bythenbrs]

20 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Sounds like TMJ is going to get some run this game.

Casillas in the house... but I repeat myself

[Coreyl90]

TMJ has to stay available to start with, but his luck of the draw with a QB has been less than ideal.. I think he's trending towards purgatory but 1 solid game could really change my outlook