Great offensive breakdown

[Snake]

22 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Which coach was it that used PA to setup the run instead of setting up the pass? Was that Mike Martz? I feel like it was a Lions coach.... mid 2000s

Well Detroit did it with Sanders. But I mean he was Berry Sanders and demanded almost 100% respect. Martz may have as well but I don't remember it. 

[TheCasillas]

28 minutes ago, Jackie Lee said:

Ian Thomas can not do that

yup. He tried and whiffed on one play, it was comical.

[CRA]

3 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

This happens a lot in this game..... 

 

Im pretty sure Baker was beating himself in the film review session this week. There are countless plays like this. 

That’s gets a little weird sometimes.  I mean if the 3rd read on a play gets open quick…..a QB isn’t really always to blame for not seeing and hitting it.  Because that’s not the design of the play. 

but no doubt there were plays to be made.  Think it was just a bad game plan.    We had guys that clearly could get open. Wonder if they just deemed Robbie’s DB as the dude to look to throw on?  Baker seems to favor DJ since he has been here. 

good share though 

[TheCasillas]

12 minutes ago, CRA said:

That’s gets a little weird sometimes.  I mean if the 3rd read on a play gets open quick…..a QB isn’t really always to blame for not seeing and hitting it.  Because that’s not the design of the play. 

but no doubt there were plays to be made.  Think it was just a bad game plan.    We had guys that clearly could get open. Wonder if they just deemed Robbie’s DB as the dude to look to throw on?  Baker seems to favor DJ since he has been here. 

good share though 

Robbie is at the bottom of the screen on that play. At the snap Baker is looking that direction, but i think the entire time DJ was his target.

[AlphabetsEnd]

4 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Sorry for length. Here is a summary of my obervations and what the content creator calls out. One thing to note is that the content creator is a former football player.

• Baker, unfortunately, is to blame on a lot of our missed plays. He moved out of the pocket too soon on multiple plays that led to sacks, throw aways, and rushed passes. If he maintained positioning in the pocket he could have made easily 5-6 more plays Sunday.
• DJ Moore was open EVERY play ... Baker just couldnt keep his eyes on DJ .. Baker seemed to favor Robbie all game
• Our interior line (this include Elf) was absolutely monsterous. Zero hurries came from those 3. Elf knocked a few browns on their ass on multiple plays
•   However, Baker just missed opportunities. He also created sacks with his happy feet. I really like Baker and I think this was a matter of building chemistry and shaking off the rust. However, Rhule's team building activity of the QB competition can be blamed for this as well.

Keys to succes from my perspective:

1. Baker trust your oline

2. Baker leverage DJ and CMC, please.

3. Dont underestimate Shi

I've gone through 3 viewings (1 live, 2 gamepass) and while I agree with some of this, your conclusions on offense are not what I observe, holistically. In looking more soberly, I saw the Offense actually not playing as terribly as it seemed live, having some bad luck, not getting push, untimely penatlies, letting D-line clog passing lanes (which is bad for Mayfield who being 6'1 and throwing hard and vertical, has this issue). 

I don't think Mayfield actually played as poorly as I thought he was playing, when I watched live, or even on the second viewing. On the third viewing the offensive execution looked more competent - but undermined by mistakes, some bad luck, inconsistent line play, the batted passes, and unfortunate penalties. 

The Interception could have been a miscommunication on route, but could easily be accounted for by Mayfield throwing high to avoid the batted passes (so it could be on him squarely). I would suspect it's likely a combination of the errant toss and maybe miscommunication,, but in watching the interception and the batted passes and pressure on the series, that I'd put the interception more on Mayfield than not. 

The muffed snaps, possibly on Mayfield, possibly on Elfein, possibly both seemed to derail the game almost more than anything else - save maybe for the penalty by CJ. 

I don't have the all-22 angle, so can't speak to DJ being open on every play. He was double teamed on some crucial plays (and even triple teamed on the final drive). I suspect that is on Mayfield not having DJ's timing down. 

Mayfield does miss CMC on a few plays, though whether that is one or the other missing progressions, I can't say. I think they are having some growing pains in developing some chemistry, as CMC is out of pads so much. 

 I find it compelling that Mayfield and Robbie have the best chemistry thus far, and they've been noted on multiple occasions of tossing together. Offensive chemistry, to me, accounts for much of this. The competitions and reduced preseason schedules. 

The impression I get was that the oline blocking was inconsistent and unreliable, and that did not allow Mayfield to develop trust - as well as the lack of playing time as a cohesive offensive unit. Even though the interior line didn't allow pressures, they allowed the interior browns line to push in and clog lanes. 

The inability to establish the run up the middle (which they tried early) though never really outside, and not really at Garrett, which would have offset his rush, allowed the DEs to put up most of the rush on the outside, while the DTs could focus on clogging the middle and stopping the run. The outside rush, is what interrupted the passing game. 

Having said that, there are clearly some plays where Mayfield vacates the pocket and I couldn't tell why. Maybe it's the "happy feet" people like to attribute, or maybe the progression isn't there and the outside pressure is expected, or he's trying to shift the coverage by vacating to rifle something in. I think it's most likely a combination. 

My takeaway from the game is that the defense looks worse the more you watch it, the run defense is porous on the outside until the fourth quarter. The pass rush is absent (expected) but the pass defense (unexpected) in the second level is inconsistent all game. Brissett has no deep ball to speak of, but the LBs are playing soft, and Brisset is able to throw well in the intermediate throws, and even while the no-call gave them the option to win the game, Brisstet's final drive of the game sees him throw 3 or more really excellent passes that allow the drive to happen at all.

Edited September 14, 2022 by AlphabetsEnd

[AlphabetsEnd]

I was really baffled by the playcalling with CMC's runs throughout the game. Aside from the fewer touches than expected, I was really surprised they never really bounced him outside, or even much off tackle. Given CMC's lack of playing time, I can't recall if this is how he's used normally, but it seems odd for his running style to force interior runs with a back with injury and use worries, who is shifty as shifty gets. 

[TheCasillas]

7 minutes ago, AlphabetsEnd said:

I don't have the all-22 angle, so can't speak to DJ being open on every play. He was double teamed on some crucial plays (and even triple teamed on the final drive)

I am bit confused on how you came to this conclusion considering we only had 2 pass plays on the final drive and one of them was to DJ who took it 26 yards and then the other play was a screen to CMC. The rest were runs. 

[AlphabetsEnd]

Just now, TheCasillas said:

I am bit confused on how you came to this conclusion considering we only had 2 pass plays on the final drive and one of them was to DJ who took it 26 yards and then the other play was a screen to CMC. The rest were runs. 

I'm not the only one who noted this. I am speaking of the final plays of the drive that ended in the field goal. Panthers are running RPOs, and the pass option, for Moore, sees him triple covered at the line, so Mayfield options run to CMC, which leads to little yardage and the field goal. 

It was discussed by either Rhule or Mayfield, I think, in the interviews post-game in attempting to explain why they didn't pass after finding success. I think they were looking for the pass. CLE's DBs are legit, and seemed to have good coverage on Moore a fair but - but again, admittedly, I didn't look at ALL-22, and Moore could have been open all game and Mayfield could have been a blind fool towards him. The CMC look offs are more perplexing. I'd love to hear why those were happening. 
 

Also, great posting and analysis! I forgot to mention in my enthusiasm for responding. 

[AlphabetsEnd]

21 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

Robbie is at the bottom of the screen on that play. At the snap Baker is looking that direction, but i think the entire time DJ was his target.

What do you think is accounting for Mayfield not finding DJ Moore ...err..more, especially early game? I would have expected to see Moore...er..more involved. I assumed in the live view they were taking him away, but if he's open all the time, is there anything in the ALL-22 footage that might explain it. Or is it Baker just only trusting Robbie at the moment?

[AlphabetsEnd]

 

 

 

Edited September 14, 2022 by AlphabetsEnd

[TheCasillas]

1 minute ago, AlphabetsEnd said:

 

 

 

[DaveThePanther2008]

5 hours ago, TheCasillas said:

Sorry for length. Here is a summary of my obervations and what the content creator calls out. One thing to note is that the content creator is a former football player.

• Baker, unfortunately, is to blame on a lot of our missed plays. He moved out of the pocket too soon on multiple plays that led to sacks, throw aways, and rushed passes. If he maintained positioning in the pocket he could have made easily 5-6 more plays Sunday.
• DJ Moore was open EVERY play ... Baker just couldnt keep his eyes on DJ .. Baker seemed to favor Robbie all game
• Our interior line (this include Elf) was absolutely monsterous. Zero hurries came from those 3. Elf knocked a few browns on their ass on multiple plays
• Elf needs to clean up the snapping of the ball, if he does... I dont think Bozeman sees the field at C this year.
• Ian had a mixed bag, there were some plays where he was a tactician with his assignments, and others... that left you scratching your head.
• Browns got away with A LOT of defensive holding on our receivers, specifically Shi. The nickel that was on Shi grabbed him on at least 4 plays that I counted.
• Ickey struggled mightily early on, but as the game progress Ickey steadily improved. Even to a point where the Browns started to run MG on the other side and inside
• Browns ran a 3-3-5 defense more than we did. Even with JOK (Hybrid LBer) they stayed in Nickel against us pretty much the whole game
• Baker INT: So it appears this was a miscommunication between both Shi and Baker. Baker threw it where he thought poo was going, up the seam. After the throw you could see Baker make a gesture of "poo, you are supposed to go up field" - we all know what could have led to this... Reps... or Shi being young. Your choice.
• Baker looked off CMC waayy too much, it was awkward to see.
• Ickey is going to get called for a false start in a few games this year
• DAMN! Brady is an absolute monster at G
• Browns were playing about 5-7 yards off of our recievers the majority of the game... which explains the quick routes we ran 
• Shi was another receiver that was open quite a bit during the game
• Pass protection was definitely better than we have seen in recent years. There were moments in the game where we were beat but outside of that they stood tall. Baker defintely made it hard our guys by moving out of the pcoket too soon
• Robbie absolutely destroyed Newsome on multiple plays... 2 easy TDs Baker missed due to a collapsing pocket and not looking to that side of the field. Robbie is going to have a strong year, he was open on so many plays.
• On the Ian long pass play... Shi was wide open in the seam as well. The defense doubled Moore and CMC. It wasnt a blow coverage but rather CMC soaked up a safety and 2 lbers with his route. This falls on JOK, it was his job to hold Ian but he thought the ball was going to CMC and he released Ian
• Tremble actually had a solid game, doesnt show up on the stat sheet but he was blocking like a mad man and was open on numerous plays. There was one play that led to a sack that Tremble pushed Garrett and it helped him get wider and blow past Ickey.
• Damn. Easy TD right before the half end to Shi. Baker missed it.

 

In all honesty, I know I will get blasted here... we had every opportunity to control this game and take a commanding lead and never look back.  However, Baker just missed opportunities. He also created sacks with his happy feet. I really like Baker and I think this was a matter of building chemistry and shaking off the rust. However, Rhule's team building activity of the QB competition can be blamed for this as well.

Keys to succes from my perspective:

1. Baker trust your oline

2. Baker leverage DJ and CMC, please.

3. Dont underestimate Shi

Really great stuff. 

You analyzed it perfectly,  Let's hope we see a gooa analysis from our coaching staff.  Hopefully, Baker is smart enough to trust the play and see the whole field.  He can't continue to let open receivers go without passes.   

Maybe he's not fully comfortable with the offense but he better get it quickly. 

[TheCasillas]

1 hour ago, AlphabetsEnd said:

What do you think is accounting for Mayfield not finding DJ Moore ...err..more, especially early game? I would have expected to see Moore...er..more involved. I assumed in the live view they were taking him away, but if he's open all the time, is there anything in the ALL-22 footage that might explain it. Or is it Baker just only trusting Robbie at the moment?

 Robbie (8) and Moore had 6 plenty of targets. They were the focal point in our passing offense, and that was evident. I think it really was just Baker rushing through his reads. Bc if he maintained on DJ (mainly the first read) for 1 second more, then I expect DJ to have 2-3 more passes sent his way. I also expect us to have at least 7 more points on the board as well. 

[Mr. Scot]

For the record, Browns DC Joe Woods is a guy whose name appears on a lot of early lists of potential head coaching candidates for next season.