The "L" is mostly on First Half Baker

[frankw]

Baker played like poo in the first half but in fairness he also doesn't play defense and that side of the ball was also lacking.

[Jon Snow]

This was a team failure.  That lies squarely on the coaches.  When everyone looks like crap it's a coaching problem.

 

[LinvilleGorge]

7 minutes ago, Khaki Lackey said:

Made the throws? He had like 4 deflected passes and a pick. In the second half, sure.

The pick was an awful pass.

Balls deflected at the line are very rarely (I'd argue almost never) on the QB. If a QB is short and/or has a low or slow release he'll naturally have more balls tipped. The second is potentially fixable. The first isn't. Unfortunately, Baker is short for an NFL QB. It is what it is. Drew Brees was shorter. Russell Wilson is shorter. You don't have to be 6'4"+ but it does help.

When the OL is letting pressure get in your face balls are gonna get tipped. Cam was 6'5" with a high release and also had an inordinate amount of passes tipped as a Panther for the same reason.

[ForJimmy]

Calling a pass heavy first half with a newly formed OL which features a rookie LT going against the best pass rusher in the league has to share a little of the blame right?  I get he was rusty (and sacked 4 times) in the first half as several other QBs were in week one, but you have to draw it up better than that from a coaching perspective.  If Rhule thought Elf was better than Bozeman because of reps then fine (I don't agree) but I can accept that to a degree.  Kind of makes him look stupid for not putting more of an emphasis on reps throughout preseason but whatever.

The blame looks kind of like this to me

1. Coaching staff for game plan and preparation.  Going pass heavy against Garrett with Icky still learning and not giving him any help early set the tone for their defense and our offense early.  I will give them credit for making some actual adjustments (giving Icky help and drawing up some running plays) later in the game.

2. Run defense.  It's really hard for an offense to get in sync when they get one possession then sit on the sidelines for 5-6 minutes before they see a second one.  It also allowed their OL to set the tone and win the battle of TOP and line of scrimmage.

4. Officiating.  2 bad balls that kept the last drive alive and allowed them to kick the game winning FG.

3. Baker Mayfield.  I'm not sure how much of a say he has in the offense, but he needed to hit some quick easy throws early to keep the pass rush at bay.  If he was allowed to audible for more protection he needed to (but I doubt he was able to).  He needed to adjust his throws once they started getting batted down and sailed that pass that was a INT. 

4. Henderson's PI.  It ruined a Woods INT that could have changed momentum early and allowed them to keep a scoring drive alive.

 

[Mr. Scot]

6 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

I just dont see a path where you put this all on the coaching. Its going to be split down the middle.

Baker doesnt throw a pick and hits Shi on that route, no points for the Browns.
Henderson doesnt tackle Amari, no points for the browns
Elf and Baker exchange the ball cleanly, we get 5 downs back
Refs call the right calls on the final drive, no points for the browns

You can do the same for the coaches. At the end of the day though, its a two way street. You can blame the HC for the loss bc he is accountable for it, but you cant blame the coaches for the refs and players lack of execution or bonehead decisions. 

Mayfield looked bad.

The offensive line blocking for him looked bad.

The skill players were mostly invisible.

The playcalling didn't do us any favors

The defensive position groups all looked bad individually. The defense as a unit looked horrible.

Now, when you can point to the rest of the team being at least half decent and the quarterback looking bad, then you can put the burden of the blame on him for his performance.

When every unit looks bad, that's on coaching.

[Panthers Fan 69]

Did you hear the jets coach this morning?  He did exactly what Rhule does and blame everything but himself and his staff. THAT is the reason both teams suck asshole taint….bad coaching and leadership.  
 

if we had a better coaching staff with this talent we would have won this game.  No believes they can win yet..so they keep losing. 

[TheCasillas]

5 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Mayfield looked bad.

The offensive line blocking for him looked bad.

The skill players were mostly invisible.

The playcalling didn't do us any favors

The defensive position groups all looked bad individually. The defense as a unit looked horrible.

Now, when you can point to the rest of the team being at least half decent and the quarterback looking bad, then you can put the burden of the blame on him for his performance.

When every unit looks bad, that's on coaching.

thats the tale of two halves though. Can you honestly say those first 4 bullets held true in the 2nd half? when we scored on 3 of our 4 drives? 

What you are sharing were points in the game, not the game in itself. I called out specific plays that were the player's fault that changed the entire tide of the game. You are using generalizations of the first half.

Edited September 13, 2022 by TheCasillas

[ForJimmy]

1 minute ago, TheCasillas said:

thats the tale of two halves though. Can you honestly say those first 4 bullets held true in the 2nd half? when we scored on 3 of our 4 drives? 

What you are sharing were points in the game, not the game in itself. I called out specific plays that were the player's fault that changed the entire tide of the game. You are generalizations of the first half.

Do you not think the staff shares a pretty large portion of the blame?  I give them credit for making adjustments which almost allowed us to steal a win in a game we were getting dominated in.  

[TheCasillas]

Just now, ForJimmy said:

Do you not think the staff shares a pretty large portion of the blame?  I give them credit for making adjustments which almost allowed us to steal a win in a game we were getting dominated in.  

as i said before its split down the middle. The key moments of that game were due to player's mistakes. At the end of the day it's Rhules fault bc he is the HC and needs to be accountable. However, one less pick and PI ... its a compeltely different scenario. 

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

thats the tale of two halves though. Can you honestly say those first 4 bullets held true in the 2nd half? when we scored on 3 of our 4 drives? 

What you are sharing were points in the game, not the game in itself. I called out specific plays that were the player's fault that changed the entire tide of the game. You are using generalizations of the first half.

Baker was better in the second half too.

The defense was ass through all four quarters.

Yet the OP is trying to put the blame for the entire game on Mayfield's first half performance.

It's just terrible logic.

Edited September 13, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[carpanfan96]

Game plan was horrid on both sides of the ball, center was shaky with snaps, overall online play was godawful as well. Even a good qb will look bad with all of the above going against them. 

[TheCasillas]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Baker was better in the second half too.

The defense was ass through all four quarters.

Yet the OP is trying to put the blame for the entire game on Mayfield's first half performance.

It's just terrible logic.

I dont think it was just baker's fault. I think he had a role in it, but not the primary detractor. Our defense held Cleveland to only 140 total yards in the 2nd half, and 0-3 in the redzone. Settling for 3 field goals. The defense definitely improved as the game progressed. 

 

The 4th quarter the browns only had 53 total yards. The final drive was 22 of those yards.

Edited September 13, 2022 by TheCasillas

[jtm]

Mayfield looked awful in the first half and there is no disputing this.  Not using CMC for essentially the entire game was and still is a head scratcher.  The Panthers looked like a 5-6 win team on Sunday and I hope I am wrong.  

I'm an optimistic person, but I didn't see anything to be excited about.  Even Horn looked bad.

 

[Mr. Scot]

12 minutes ago, TheCasillas said:

I dont think it was just baker's fault. I think he had a role in it, but not the primary detractor. Our defense held Cleveland to only 140 total yards in the 2nd half, and 0-3 in the redzone. Settling for 3 field goals. The defense definitely improved as the game progressed.

The 4th quarter the browns only had 53 total yards. The final drive was 22 of those yards.

They got what they needed to win the game. That's all that really matters.

It's basically the same discussion as last year's "we had the number two defense" thing.