Cleveland's run preferences vs our defense's strengths and weaknesses

[PanthersGTI]

I'm hoping that YGM stepping into the starting role, and what seems to be more focus on run stuffing in our DT personnel and overall improved LBs and safeties our run D will look better then last season. I'm not an expert but I hear a lot about gap integrity being terrible last year, hopefully camp this year was hyper focused on that.   

[AU-panther]

21 hours ago, CRA said:

I think our numbers are a tad skewed.  I think that is why our run defense is doubted. 

If team A allowed 4 ypc and 100 rush yards per game and team B allowed the exact same numbers…..that doesn’t necessarily make them comparable run defenses in reality.   There are other factors.  If team A played the best 17 rush offenses and team B played the 17 worst….team A has a better run D. 

we played the 32nd, 31st x2, 30th, 27th, 26th x2,  24th rush offenses.  That’s basically half the schedule catching the worst of the worst in terms of opposing rush offenses. 

Who you are playing is important.  Also, down and distance is important.  Giving up 5yrds rushing on 1st and 10 is worse than giving up 5yrds on 3rd and 15.  On 3rd and 15 you will happily give up 5yrds on the ground, any team would.

Football Outsiders actually tried to quantify that with their DVOA stat.  It's basically a measure of your results relative to expected results.

                                                                                                                                                                

 

22 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

If you're happy about a team having one great unit or another while they're losing games, I'd say your priorities could probably use a tweak.

As to evaluating units, I'm fine with it. But I do that by actually watching how they perform, not looking up where they rank.

And as a good example of what's really important, see this from above.

When that's where you're at "but we ranked 8th" doesn't really mean a damn thing.

"not being able to stop it when we knew it was coming" is another artificial metric that fans create and apply in a vacuum.  There are probably 20 different fan bases saying the same thing about their team.

Here again, compared to the rest of the league what are you basing this on?  

We were 18th in TDs allowed rushing.

15th in 1st downs allowed.  Percentage wise we were actually 7th.

2021 NFL defense rushing stats by Team | NFL.com

I think we can all agree our run defense wasn't elite.  No reasonable person is saying it was 2nd best because of yards given up. 

Maybe it isn't as good as some made up standard that some fan creates, and only applies to one team,

but relative to the rest of the league  

our rush defense was by most reasonable standards a middle third ranked defense, not near as bad as some of the people around here want to claim.

 

 

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

                                                                                                                                                              "not being able to stop it when we knew it was coming" is another artificial metric that fans create and apply in a vacuum.  There are probably 20 different fan bases saying the same thing about their team.

Here again, compared to the rest of the league what are you basing this on?  

We were 18th in TDs allowed rushing.

15th in 1st downs allowed.  Percentage wise we were actually 7th.

2021 NFL defense rushing stats by Team | NFL.com

I think we can all agree our run defense wasn't elite.  No reasonable person is saying it was 2nd best because of yards given up. 

Maybe it isn't as good as some made up standard that some fan creates, and only applies to one team,

but relative to the rest of the league  

our rush defense was by most reasonable standards a middle third ranked defense, not near as bad as some of the people around here want to claim.

Oh, it's real. In fact, it's a pretty damn important metric when game time comes.

The only "made up standards" are those stats you desperately cling to,

See, football isn't a stat contest. Now mind you, information storage being what it is these days, you could technically look up who had the fourth best defense in 1974 if you wanted...

...but the reality is that pretty much nobody gives a sh-t.

When this season is over, nobody's gonna remember (or care)  whether we held teams to 4.7 yards per carry when opposing offenses running spread concepts were rushing to the left in afternoon games played on grass fields at stadiums on the west coast when the weather was good.

They're gonna remember whether or not we won...maybe if we looked good doing it or barely squeaked it out but even that's not such a big deal to many.

So, my suggestion? Try watching the game like a coach rather than an accountant. You might actually learn something.

Or, I don't know...at least have some fun.

[AU-panther]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh, it's real. In fact, it's a pretty damn important metric when game time comes.

The only "made up standards" are those stats you desperately cling to,

See, football isn't a stat contest. Now mind you, information storage being what it is these days, you could technically look up who had the fourth best defense in 1974 if you wanted...

...but the reality is that pretty much nobody gives a sh-t.

When this season is over, nobody's gonna remember (or care)  whether we held teams to 4.7 yards per carry when opposing offenses running spread concepts were rushing to the left in afternoon games played on grass fields at stadiums on the west coast when the weather was good.

They're gonna remember whether or not we won...maybe if we looked good doing it or barely squeaked it out but even that's not such a big deal to many.

So, my suggestion? Try watching the game like a coach rather than an accountant. You might actually learn something.

Or, I don't know...at least have some fun.

I'm just partial to having my opinion based on facts...

[Martin]

1 hour ago, Mr. Scot said:

Oh, it's real. In fact, it's a pretty damn important metric when game time comes.

The only "made up standards" are those stats you desperately cling to,

See, football isn't a stat contest. Now mind you, information storage being what it is these days, you could technically look up who had the fourth best defense in 1974 if you wanted...

...but the reality is that pretty much nobody gives a sh-t.

When this season is over, nobody's gonna remember (or care)  whether we held teams to 4.7 yards per carry when opposing offenses running spread concepts were rushing to the left in afternoon games played on grass fields at stadiums on the west coast when the weather was good.

They're gonna remember whether or not we won...maybe if we looked good doing it or barely squeaked it out but even that's not such a big deal to many.

So, my suggestion? Try watching the game like a coach rather than an accountant. You might actually learn something.

Or, I don't know...at least have some fun.

I’m just curious about your need to constantly be a condescending know-it-all a-hole when people don’t agree with you. Stats are ok when you use them but not when other people use them.

Just relax a bit, have a discussion, be ok to disagree, try to be nice at times, you might enjoy it for a change.

[Mr. Scot]

20 minutes ago, Pakmeng said:

Mister started a thread about stats and is now saying they are made up standards. 

You really can't make this stuff up. 

Rent free in your head as always

[Mr. Scot]

49 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

I'm just partial to having my opinion based on facts...

  Here's a big one...

Stats in football don't tell an accurate story.

And to be clear, what you've written in your posts isn't "facts". The stats themselves are facts, but you write an opinion about what you think the stats are saying and label that as a fact.

It isn't.

Also, if we're being accurate here, you're mixing up stats and rankings. They're not the same thing.

They are both, however, ultimately meaningless.

Just to give you an example, let's look back at the 2010 Chargers. They ended the season accomplishing a rare feat, specifically being ranked #1 in both offense and defense.

They also finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

Now, if I were to go talk to a Chargers fan and say "Boy, that 2010 team sure was phenomenal weren't they?", do you think they'd beam with pride?

Quick Hint: The answer is no.

And it's the same with us. Who we were as a team last year has absolutely nothing to do with any statistical rank you can dredge up. It has everything to do with the fact that we finished 5-12.

If that's something you don't get, I can't really help you.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

14 minutes ago, Martin said:

I’m just curious about your need to constantly be a condescending know-it-all a-hole when people don’t agree with you. Stats are ok when you use them but not when other people use them.

Just relax a bit, have a discussion, be ok to disagree, try to be nice at times, you might enjoy it for a change.

Way off, here dude

For one, I can assure you I wouldn't be here if I weren't enjoying myself.

Now, with people who act like a--holes, I tend to return the favor, but that's far from everybody.

I'll give you a challenge: Check out other threads. In the, you'll find me having fun back and forth with several other posters.

On the flipside, take a look at the conversations our on-his-third-username friend @Pakmengis having elsewhere and see how many "pleasant conversations" you can find as opposed to people calling him out for being a condescending, unlikable piece of sh-t.

See, the guys I've been back and forth in with this thread have a tendency to paint themselves as superior (in different ways, but with the same result). Hence, why they get the responses they do (and if you think that's just from me, guess again).

Bottom Line: I don't really care that much about the opinions of strangers on a message board unless it's someone whose opinion I actually respect. And yeah, there are people on this board who qualify in that category.

These guys, though? Not so much.

[AU-panther]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

  Here's a big one...

Stats in football don't tell an accurate story.

And to be clear, what you've written in your posts isn't "facts". The stats themselves are facts, but you write an opinion about what you think the stats are saying and label that as a fact.

It isn't.

Also, if we're being accurate here, you're mixing up stats and rankings. They're not the same thing.

They are both, however, ultimately meaningless.

Just to give you an example, let's look back at the 2010 Chargers. They ended the season accomplishing a rare feat, specifically being ranked #1 in both offense and defense.

They also finished 9-7 and missed the playoffs.

Now, if I were to go talk to a Chargers fan and say "Boy, that 2010 team sure was phenomenal weren't they?", do you think they'd beam with pride.

Quick Hint: The answer is no.

And it's the same with us. Who we were as a team last year has absolutely nothing to do with any statistical rank you can dredge up. It has everything to do with the fact that we finished 5-12.

If that's something you don't get, I can't really help you.

????

I never said stat are more important than record.

I just amuse me when fans create these false narratives that just aren't backed up by facts.

To listen to you we have one of the worst run defenses in the league, which just isn't true.  They might be bad to your made-up standard but relative to the rest of the league they are not.

Nobody is saying anything about record, we are just discussing how decent one unit of your football team is, that is what people do on fan forums.

 

[Mr. Scot]

3 minutes ago, AU-panther said:

????

I never said stat are more important than record.

I just amuse me when fans create these false narratives that just aren't backed up by facts.

To listen to you we have one of the worst run defenses in the league, which just isn't true.  They might be bad to your made-up standard but relative to the rest of the league they are not.

Nobody is saying anything about record, we are just discussing how decent one unit of your football team is, that is what people do on fan forums.

Again, not getting it...

I don't care where our defense ranks in relation to the rest of the league. That's your department.

What I care about is if they're good enough to beat the team we happen to be playing this week.

That question gets settled on the field, not on a spreadsheet.

More times than not last year, they weren't.

As far as proving whether or not they are this year, the burden of proof is on them.

Edited September 8, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

4 minutes ago, Pakmeng said:

He is incapable of discussion that involves any sort of nuance, detail or analysis.

Nah

Would point out though that I'm capable of having conversations where people don't hate having to deal with me and/or say something like "Why are you even here?"

Neither have I yet needed to "forget my password" because nobody wanted to talk with me.

That's where you fall short, as your numerous negative interactions with...well, just about everyone you talk to bear out.

Oh, and rent free, still...

Edited September 8, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[poundaway]

How do you prepare your rookie left tackle to go up against one of the best in the league?

Well obviously it's going to be a challenge for Icky whether it's Miles or Mr Clowney but he's got to be ready at times to go block him by himself but at the same point in time he's not out there by himself right? It takes a team and takes a good plan to put him in position to be successful. Icky's a guy and we drafted him for a reason we have a lot of confidence in him as a player.