Tepper's about to be wrong again

[AceBoogie]

17 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is one of those threads where you get to see who's taking things (or themselves) a tad too seriously

The irony 

[Mr. Scot]

1 hour ago, coffee said:

Good idea, but it would be a hard sell.

"Yeah, thanks for all your pop did.  Sorry he kicked the bucket.  Oh, by the way, his number's unretired."

I actually think the Steelers probably have the right idea.

5 hours ago, tukafan21 said:

1, 59, and 58 should all be done too, but I can see the argument of retiring 4 numbers before we're even 30 years of a franchise and without a SB win might be a bit much.

This is where you run into trouble with retiring numbers.

You can't just retire the number of every great player you loved. And unfortunately, that's what fans tend to want to do.

Sam Mills was way more than just a great player. That's why his number is retired. Of the four numbers discussed here, really only Thomas Davis has anything close to that kind of legacy beyond the playing field but even there I'd say it's probably not enough.

The standard has to be higher.

Edited September 7, 2022 by Mr. Scot

[Mr. Scot]

While we're at it, a little bit of actual news, Kenny Pickett has won the backup job in Pittsburgh.

 

[coffee]

3 hours ago, hepcat said:

Who cares what the players’s children think? Retiring the number isn’t for them. It’s for the player. 

OK.  When I croak, you're hired to give my funeral discourse.

[tukafan21]

5 hours ago, Mr. Scot said:

I actually think the Steelers probably have the right idea.

This is where you run into trouble with retiring numbers.

You can't just retire the number of every great player you loved. And unfortunately, that's what fans tend to want to do.

Sam Mills was way more than just a great player. That's why his number is retired. Of the four numbers discussed here, really only Thomas Davis has anything close to that kind of legacy beyond the playing field but even there I'd say it's probably not enough.

The standard has to be higher.

I get what you're saying, and agree, TD while a great player for us, is more about his story and what he meant to the organization.

And yes, there needs to be a high standard, but Cam won an MVP and should be a HOFer (I still think his rushing stats alone is why he'll get in), how do you not retire the number of the franchise's only MVP winner who also will be in the HOF (hence why I also said to wait 10 years before looking at it, as if he never gets in, that could change things).

But Luke to me has the strongest argument of those other three.

His career was only short because of concussions, nothing else, and he's going to be a first ballot HOFer and one of the best MLB in the history of the game. For someone to get into the HOF on the first ballot, after playing their entire career with one team and was only cut short due to injuries, how do you not retire that number?

Do you think the Lions won't retire Calvin's number?  Basically the same thing, 100% they retire his number.

If we just look at the player's standing at their given position over the history of the sport, Luke would have a better argument for getting his number retired than Smitty.

Edited September 7, 2022 by tukafan21

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, tukafan21 said:

I get what you're saying, and agree, TD while a great player for us, is more about his story and what he meant to the organization.

And yes, there needs to be a high standard, but Cam won an MVP and should be a HOFer (I still think his rushing stats alone is why he'll get in), how do you not retire the number of the franchise's only MVP winner who also will be in the HOF (hence why I also said to wait 10 years before looking at it, as if he never gets in, that could change things).

But Luke to me has the strongest argument of those other three.

His career was only short because of concussions, nothing else, and he's going to be a first ballot HOFer. For someone to get into the HOF on the first ballot, after playing their entire career with one team and was only cut short due to injuries, how do you not retire that number?

Do you think the Lions won't retire Calvin's number?  Basically the same thing, 100% they retire his number.

The Lions and Johnson were kind of on the outs with each other for a while so I don't know about that one.

Honestly, I'm just not that big a believer in retiring numbers in general. Retiring Mills number makes sense, of course. I'm just not that worried about whether we retire others or not.

Equipment managers tend to hold back certain numbers for at least a few years in some cases. That's enough for me.

[tukafan21]

7 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

The Lions and Johnson were kind of on the outs with each other for a while so I don't know about that one.

Honestly, I'm just not that big a believer in retiring numbers in general. Retiring Mills number makes sense, of course. I'm just not that worried about whether we retire others or not.

Equipment managers tend to hold back certain numbers for at least a few years in some cases. That's enough for me.

That's a fair argument too and one I can't fault.

But if we're talking about high standards, how much higher does it get than being a first ballot HOFer?  Particularly when they do that after a concussion shortened career?

There's only been 86 first ballot HOFers in almost 60 years of the HOF being around.

Granted his career was even shorter, but he also won an MVP and 2 SB's, but it took Terrell Davis 11 tries to get into the HOF, says a lot about Luke's career that he'll be a first ballot guy with only played 8 seasons.

And Calvin and the Lions I think are good now, it was ugly at first over the fight over his signing bonus, but they've more or less settled that beef and are cool again, just took a few years, kinda like Smitty and the Panthers.

Edited September 7, 2022 by tukafan21

[Mr. Scot]

8 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

That's a fair argument too and one I can't fault.

But if we're talking about high standards, how much higher does it get than being a first ballot HOFer?

This is one where I defer to the Steelers.

[tukafan21]

9 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

This is one where I defer to the Steelers.

If we had 6 Super Bowls then I'd agree, but we're not, and it's nice to have some history with the team and I think almost 30 years into the franchise, it's okay to retire the best player in franchise history in Smitty and a first ballot HOFer who played his whole career for us.

HOF opened in 1963, modern day NFL essentially started in 1967 with the first Super Bowl.  

30 years after the first SB, the Steelers had 4 SB titles, all of which they won by Super Bowl 14.

Yes, if we won 4 SB's in our first 15 years, the standard for retiring numbers would just have to be different. I'm not even going to argue for someone like Peppers, he's probably the best player to play the majority of their career with us, but spent too many years away to have his number retired here, but put him in the Ring of Honor.

If you want to really limit things, do Smitty and Luke and then stop there, but I think Cam and TD should be considered at some point too, pending how things go over the next 10 years.  If we don't win a SB and don't have any players at that time who are looking like they'd be future candidates, maybe then you do Cam if he's made the HOF or TD.

But in the end, Smitty and Luke are both no brainers to me, even if you want to severely limit them.

[Mr. Scot]

2 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

If we had 6 Super Bowls then I'd agree, but we're not, and it's nice to have some history with the team and I think almost 30 years into the franchise, it's okay to retire the best player in franchise history in Smitty and a first ballot HOFer who played his whole career for us.

HOF opened in 1963, modern day NFL essentially started in 1967 with the first Super Bowl.  

30 years after the first SB, the Steelers had 4 SB titles, all of which they won by Super Bowl 14.

Yes, if we won 4 SB's in our first 15 years, the standard for retiring numbers would just have to be different. I'm not even going to argue for someone like Peppers, he's probably the best player to play the majority of their career with us, but spent too many years away to have his number retired here, but put him in the Ring of Honor.

If you want to really limit things, do Smitty and Luke and then stop there, but I think Cam and TD should be considered at some point too, pending how things go over the next 10 years.  If we don't win a SB and don't have any players at that time who are looking like they'd be future candidates, maybe then you do Cam if he's made the HOF or TD.

But in the end, Smitty and Luke are both no brainers to me, even if you want to severely limit them.

Yet...

Granted we're not on a trajectory for anything like that kind of success now, but I'd like to at least leave it open as an option.

[tukafan21]

6 minutes ago, Mr. Scot said:

Yet...

Granted we're not on a trajectory for anything like that kind of success now, but I'd like to at least leave it open as an option.

Agreed, that's why I say you wait on Cam and TD.

Do Smitty and Luke now, they've earned it and even if we turn into a powerhouse.  I think for an expansion team in this era, it's more than fair to retire the best player in that team's first 30 year history.  That rate would be retiring 3 numbers every 90 years (I wouldn't count Mills in that calculation, his is different and something any team would do in the same situation, such as Sean Taylor), that's Steelers level stuff right there, and I've already made my Luke argument of course.

Wait 10 years, if we're still not looking at a potential dynasty, you can do one more, if after another 5 or so and still in the same place, do the other.  If we've turned into a potential dynasty in 10-15 years, then we're sitting at only Mills, Smitty, and Luke and can be more stringent moving forward and those 3 will still always be more than deserving.

Edited September 7, 2022 by tukafan21

[glenwo2]

On 9/6/2022 at 3:04 PM, Mr. Scot said:

This is one of those threads where you get to see who's taking things (or themselves) a tad too seriously

So this is a Joke thread?

 

Bruh.

Edited September 7, 2022 by glenwo2

[Mr. Scot]

5 minutes ago, tukafan21 said:

Agreed, that's why I say you wait on Cam and TD.

Do Smitty and Luke now, they've earned it and even if we turn into a powerhouse.  I think for an expansion team in this era, it's more than fair to retire the best player in that team's first 30 year history.  That rate would be retiring 3 numbers every 90 years (I wouldn't count Mills in that calculation, his is different and something any team would do in the same situation, such as Sean Taylor), that's Steelers level stuff right there, and I've already made my Luke argument of course.

Wait 10 years, if we're still not looking at a potential dynasty, you can do one more, if after another 5 or so and still in the same place, do the other.  If we've turned into a potential dynasty in 10-15 years, then we're sitting at only Mills, Smitty, and Luke and can be more stringent moving forward and those 3 will still always be more than deserving.

Well by that time, I might not be here so you guys can do whatever you feel like

[Mr. Scot]

1 minute ago, glenwo2 said:

So this is a Joke thread?

 

Bruh.

It wasn't obvious?